The Great Evilness of Thuban

Mp3, Mar 15 2010, 10:26 PM wrote:

As the fan was turning browner by the hour on Avalon, Before this gorilla was hauled off to the mists, I talked to Bill about how this grinding conflict on the forum was being handled.

He insisted it was Abraxas that was the problem. I insisted it was how the staff was handling it.

It might be different if Abraxas was here posting, but at least we can see that it had nothing to do with the subject matter, because nobody has been interested enough to even open a thread with a question or comment.

It would all have died down as people came to their own conclusions as to what they were looking at, instead of having a few nitwits ramming their viewpoint down everybody elses throats

Anchor, Mar 15 2010, 10:29 PM wrote:

I think the discord that developed was used, ignited and fanned somehow by people who would prefer not to see people like the members of this forum talking about things that are likely to progress our states of becoming.

Jenny, Mar 15 2010, 10:32 PM wrote:

It Always is HOW we handle any given situation.

It never is the situation on it's own that is to be blamed. The situation just IS.
All the different opinions and emotions cause a conflict of ego's.

Don't you think so MP3?


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Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large crowds.

metaw3, Mar 16 2010, 12:25 AM wrote:

When I opened the Thuban thread the first time, I read one or two paragraphs of the first post and decided it was not for me, then forgot about it.

Meanwhile I stumbled upon a post from GaiaLove in a MANCHILD thread saying that negativity would soon be a thing of the past at Avalon. I had no idea who GaiaLove was. That was the first time I was seeing a post of his, but when I saw that he was admin I knew it he had to be serious about it. I decided to PM him, something I do rarely. I said: "I don't know how you will manage to get rid of negativity. I know however that it's better to have smart negative people frequenting, say mudra, and seeing how she has no problem with doom and gloom. They might calm down and you will have one smart member on your team. Better that than allowing only positive people who might not be that smart and who have nothing to gain from frequenting other positive people with the same views, never confronting each other." Something like that. Never got a reply.

Then I saw GaiaLove starting a thread about the Thuban material. It was clear that he didn't care about the subject. He just wanted to attack the guy under false pretenses. Basic political crusade using the 'common good' as a cover. But an admin doing it? It felt so wrong to me. Come on man, you're the admin. If you don't like the guy, ban him and take the heat, but don't bother people pretending that it's about Thuban. It is so obvious that you want to use the will of the people to get rid of a guy you don't like for your own reasons, not the ones you claim.

So I went back to the Thuban thread to see what was that about. Then I had a real good laugh when I saw how the guy was talking. He was talking like he was very interested in the questions people asked, but in such a way that the people never really get what they want. They feel that they have someone incredibly smart interested in their own little questions, so it feels empowering, but they just can't feel satisfied with any answer they get and they just end up wanting more. That's what I thought was so funny and clever because inevitably they will end up facing themselves in the mirror he was giving them.

Then there was Celine who was just obnoxious but I didn't care, she was not an admin. I only care about these people if there is a possible misuse of power. Until I found out that she was married to GaiaLove. That's when I knew the forum was compromised.

Adv, Mar 16 2010, 12:30 AM wrote:

QUOTE (Jenny @ Mar 15 2010, 10:32 PM) wrote:
It Always is HOW we handle any given situation.

Them's wise words.

It's funny, I think this is in the Fallout thread, but I said, I enjoyed it, and Paul replied right back saying he couldn't be bothered by it.

We both shrugged.

Paul went ahead and started this forum specially to discuss it.

That's how it should be, Let adults be adults.

MP and Anchor,

I would love to read your version of the understanding of the thread.

Like any omnidimensional problem, the information had a lot of different angles to it.

from metaw3 wrote:

They feel that they have someone incredibly smart interested in their own little questions, so it feels empowering, but they just can't feel satisfied with any answer they get and they just end up wanting more. That's what I thought was so funny and clever because inevitably they will end up facing themselves in the mirror he was giving them.

Adv : Hmmm ....... That's a great point dude. You're making me think.


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At the end of the day you ask, What is it all about ? The what ? The how ? The why ?

k626, Mar 16 2010, 01:43 AM wrote:

QUOTE (Anchor @ Mar 15 2010, 10:29 PM) wrote:
I think the discord that developed was used, ignited and fanned somehow by people who would prefer not to see people like the members of this forum talking about things that are likely to progress our states of becoming.

Spot on Anchor my dear.


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From here we go sublime...

Mp3, Mar 16 2010, 01:52 AM wrote:

QUOTE (Adv @ Mar 16 2010, 12:30 AM) wrote:


MP and Anchor,

I would love to read your version of the understanding of the thread.

Like any omnidimensional problem, the information had a lot of different angles to it.

That's a pretty tough question, but one I feel it appropriate to try to answer. Not tonight though. Brain is running on half charge by now.

Chamber, Mar 16 2010, 02:29 AM wrote:
I'm quite interested as well on personal synopsis of the Thuban thing.

I had the same view as metaw3 stated. When I saw the thread I got about 3 paragraphs in before I moved on. The whole thing seemed so wordy and convoluted it killed any interest for me.

Had I known it was going to be such a powder keg I would have followed it. Now I here descriptions like "Dragon sex cult" and my ears perk up.

Call me a perv...




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"The Prince of Peace embraced The Gloom and walked the night alone."

Anchor, Mar 16 2010, 03:24 AM wrote:

QUOTE (MP3 @ Mar 16 2010, 01:52 AM)
QUOTE (Adv @ Mar 16 2010, 12:30 AM) wrote:


MP and Anchor,

I would love to read your version of the understanding of the thread.

Like any omnidimensional problem, the information had a lot of different angles to it.





That's a pretty tough question, but one I feel it appropriate to try to answer. Not tonight though. Brain is running on half charge by now.

Same here. I need to rest from all this before I do more.

Iysun777, Mar 16 2010, 04:45 AM wrote:

QUOTE (Chamber @ Mar 16 2010, 02:29 AM) wrote:I'm quite interested as well on personal synopsis of the Thuban thing.

My perspective on the whole thuban ordeal is that it all got wayyyy out of hand. To many people were taking the information to seriously, especially those that took offense to it.

It was obviously not meant to be taken literally as the dragon symbolism mixed with the writers content gives the hint away to the symbologist. There was some pretty cool information hidden behind macabre imagery and fear... Gargoyes to hide the treasure as they say!

But that being said I never took a lot from it that I never knew before hand... meaning that the information was a lot of rehashed or remixed stuff told in a different fashion... but I guess in one sense that is all information ever is.

The math was way beyond me, and even if it wasn't many of the equations would be unprovable without some high tech equipment or intersteller space travelling.

Whatever the case it should not have been removed, I didn't realize that it was Celine that was the one who made the complaint! I should have guessed though as she makes a false accusation or outlook nearly every post she writes, she probably means well but like many stuck in their mind and ego she is narcissistic to the max, the forum is her world and her problems and her opinions only.

A little bit of conflict of interest there or what? The Admin being her husband? Nasty stuff to falsely accuse people of sexual misconduct, although the accuser probably believes it herself.

mkspllmn, Mar 16 2010, 05:59 AM wrote:

Nasty stuff to falsely accuse people of sexual misconduct, although the accuser probably believes it herself.

Maybe she was talking about her husband.


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Practice random acts of senceless kindness.

hippihillbobbie, Mar 16 2010, 11:47 AM wrote:

Hey ya'll--

Well ..... as one of the members of the Thuban sex dragon cult, i'm gonna venture an opinion here. Though i TOTALLY understand why others of you who "made it through" the entire Thuban thread would feel the need for a break from it for awhile. time....to process and assimilate, before proclamating. since i was never in any official capacity to "safeguard the integrity of the PA forum," as the mods & admins. are, i was able--for the most part--to read the ongoing and ever-accelerating criticism of the Thuban material and of Abraxas personally (and--by implication as well as direct accusation--of those of us who were sincerely interested in the material) WITHOUT a lot of personal emotion attached. I understood, i suppose, that those who were the main proponents of the negativity ....... the ones who made it their "mission" to save themselves, the forum, and the rest of us (on both sides) from this grave danger which imperiled our soul, our lives, civilization as we know it, and the future of the planet (WHEW! what a LOAD to have to CARRY!) ..... i understood that they really couldn't help feeling/looking-at-it that way, as they are still caught in the fundamentalist mindset where black is black and white is white, evil and good are polar opposites, and the mission of the "good guys" is to defeat this evil wherever they espy it. they need to save us from the lies & deceptions of the devil, and they fail to trust the God-in-Us to discern what is good-for-us at this time in our soul progression. they know best. and they love us enough to beat us over the head in a futile effort to prove their world-view/spiritual perspective is the only True and Right Way for spiritual pilgrims journeying back to Source. There is arrogance here, of course, but--as i EVENTUALLY came to realize--also much love.

Someone here (think it was here) said he/she had visited Gaia Love/Celine's website before it was "pulled down," and commented how "surprised" we all would be to discover they were actually "dragons in disguise!" (which--in Thuban--is a good thing). And indeed, i remember being surprised when--toward the end of the Thuban thread, right before it was pulled--Abraxas himself waxed eloquent for awhile about the virtues of Celine and Gaia Love in that they "played their role" so well, in the profound cosmic drama which the Thuban material and the polarized reactions it produced represented (in his view.) His sincere admiration of and gratitude to Richard & Celine was very pronounced, and i wouldn't be surprised (though i can't remember for sure) if he NAMED them both as fellow-dragons right then & there! (someone should check that out.) and i can remember how "lifted up" i ended up feeling after having read and assimilated the meaning of these final posts. Abraxas was saying in no uncertain terms that WE ARE ONE and that the "apparent" struggle we were having on the PA forum was a reflection of the "apparent" struggles going on in the world around us where it is so tempting to point fingers at each other, to name each other "good guys" and "bad guys," and to be driven by the FALSE NEED to win/be right/save everyone from their sin and/or ignorance. and then, of course, this wider struggle (war of archetypes) is mirrored in the wars between the various factions of the PTB which is mirrored in the wars between ET's in our universe, which is then most likely mirrored in the struggle/wars/polarity existing in the COSMOS! but in the end, it need not concern us, because in the end, WE ARE ALL ONE, in the NOW which is eternal. we are ALL good guys, shards of the One Good God, if we can but see through the illusion and remember.

Having said that, i need only to add that, despite my profound feelings of awe and amazement as the Thuban thread drew to a close ...... prompted not only by the [I]intellectual/spiritual stimulation[/I] the material produced, but also & maybe more importantly by the nature of the emotional/spiritual interaction between the individuals on the thread, as we interacted with abraxas and with each other. I FELT, by the end, that we had just BEEN THRU A WAR, only to discover that there really was no need to fight since we actually were all on the same side to begin with and after all, but we were looking 'through a glass darkly," and could not see the Reality of our Oneness. So then i felt EXULTANT, LIFTED-UP as on the Wings of an Eagle, so in love with God the Creator and grateful to Jesus for having lead me to this place at this time to participate in the Grand Play which brought us all closer to recognizing our True Selves as Divine and Unseparated ..... as The One in the Many.

And then the thread was closed, and then i grieved. And then life went on and our Beautiful Mother-Father God brought us all here, to continue the journey, knowing already that we have already "arrived" at the end of it where we are joined together in the Cosmic Love-Fest which exists NOW and FOREVER!

your sister, in love and gratitude,

hippihillbobbi

Blacklight43, Mar 16 2010, 09:15 PM wrote:


After having read most of the material, aside from all the math stuff and physics, I concluded that most of it related almost parralel to the Wingmakers material. I really didn't find anything new to be had there.
I did however, find the soap opera that it triggered, interesting to say the least.
I'm glad to see such cool heads here.
I guess when you have spent so many years searching for the Truth it is like chasing your tail, round and round in circles.

In searching for those answers to life and dipping into the "Field of Consciousness" it seems that's where it all comes from anyway. So why do we even bother with exploring further than our own inner selves?

Sorry, I was just thinking out loud here. Seems like this is a friendly place to do it, without fear (of being misted)

Blessings to those who wish to receive!
Blacklight43


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"In your struggle with Duality...us vs. them... just know, there is only us"

Chamber, Mar 16 2010, 11:09 PM wrote:

QUOTE (Blacklight43 @ Mar 16 2010, 02:15 PM) wrote:
I guess when you have spent so many years searching for the Truth it is like chasing your tail, round and round in circles.

Isn't that the truth...

Pun intended.


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"The Prince of Peace embraced The Gloom and walked the night alone."

malletxky, Mar 17 2010, 06:31 PM wrote:

If I may add my humble opinion about the thuban material...

There was a thread on avalon where someone asked "us", the one who might've "understand" a bit of that material, to explain what we really got from it.

Actually, I just logged in back to avalon as I wanted to find my reply and post it here. Imagine...this post is gone...deleted...it's not any more in the archives...hmmm. Anyway, I will try to repeat that here again:

I actually never quite understood the high maths and physics there. And from the rest...well say, I might have got some 5% ? Maybe less. But...

I was actually searching for the spiritual part inside. I somehow knew it is there and I had to find it. I was actually looking to find any apropriate answers about who we are, why are we here as we are, what's our purpose. This was also the main goal why I joined avalon from the begining.

It was the selfrealization that I found, and I'm so happy now that I followed the thuban material from it's begining.

I don't claim to know all the answers, but I'm begining to grasp the concept.

In my next post, I will paste a part of the e-mail correspondence with MP3 about the thuban material and how I saw the enfolding of it on the forum.

(MP3, it is only what I wrote to you, without any "private details" of that conversation, nothing to worry here mate).


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...I am who I am, and we are all one as I am one...

Take a look in the mirror....and try to see ME.
I'm there...as I'm YOU!
So if you love ME, I love YOU too...

malletzky, Mar 17 2010, 06:40 PM wrote:

So, here's a small part o that conversation...filtered...and sent to MP3 on 22.02.2010.




Many fail to contact their hearts in order to see. Highly polarised with the good and the bad, scared to death and therefore proclaiming theirself to be the lightholder, lightwarriors, lovesharing beings, many try to supress the fears they're facing each and every day. The logical consequences are that they're unfortunately not ready to accept that yes, there could be (or is) more to the story.

It takes only one person to step forward and declare war...and there you have many impersonators. Yeah, beat the dragon, the dragon is evil.

But you described it well and hit the nail properly with your last post, really.

I wrote an e-mail to (...) yesterday and told her, among other, that I feel many new energies comming straight to us, some of these energies already being here, that need to be ballanced.
Now, I've come to the point where I realised that I need to completely balance my self first. Start within and spread outside...

Oh, and I was positively 'amazed' to read that you actually knew about 'thuban' before the 'thuban' material was ever presented on the forum (only another label, of course, but I understand the way you were able to recognise the existence).

For me, the 'thuban' material content many hidden 'thruts'. I read...and I somehow understand. Not the technical part...not the part about becomming some 'evil draconian'...but the spiritual part.
And these spiritual energies are so known...so known.

Anyway, I'm glad that you know what's all about. And I hope you'll be able to give me some informations about 'meeting the dragon', as you described on your post.

(...)

Before I end this e-mail, I will share a dream with you.

(...)


My dream:

Yesterday, after I made the decision about the forum, I asked for a guidance and an explanation about what's going on, about that decision, about 'thuban'...and I had an unusual dream this morning.

I was sitting with a friend on the edge of a desert, we drunk limonade in a small desert bar. A dusty road ahead of us would brought us to a distant 'city', a 'school' beside us and one garage behind us.
No cars, no busses, nothing except us and some other, few people, sitting there barefoot. We discussed the given oportunity to get back to 'school', but also measured our chances to reach the city, barefoot on that dusty road. In my dream, I had this feeling that I've already dreamed of this school, of this situation, and I knew that in the past, I've decided to 'do the walk' and that I tried to reach to the city. I even had a 'dream in my dream' situation where I walked on that road and I failed in my mission. I never reached to the city.

My friend decided to go back to 'school', but I realised that I don't need and have to go back there, as I've been there once and graduated already. The only open task for me was to reach the city.
So I told my friend that he should better go to that school, but I will stay where I am and see what I will do next. We splitted, and I suddenly went in the garage and saw that there actually was a car inside, but very, very dirty. You couldn't even recognise the colours, so dirty it was. It looked like that many tried to use that car to reach to the city, but the fact that the car was still in the garage made me thinking that actually no one ever succeed, as the car wouldn't be here.

So I started to scrub the dirty dwon as I wanted to see the colour, when, all of the sudden, I had an 'aha moment'! Wait I said...I don't even have to go phisically to that city, I'm I nuts? We DO HAVE INTERNET today, so I will send my self packed as an e-mail and don't have to walk that road again.

What an idea that was. I knew that I can convert myself to a pure energy and send myself anywhere I wanted...

My dream ended there...but I know the meaning :-) . I'm almost there...I'm almost there where I really belong. I don't have to learn anything else in any 'schools' anymore.
It's all inside of me, and I only need to scrub some dust from the surface of what I already see and feel.




This is it...I hope you can get some clearer picture of how I "saw" the thuban material.

with much respect
malletzky


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...I am who I am, and we are all one as I am one...

Take a look in the mirror....and try to see ME.
I'm there...as I'm YOU!
So if you love ME, I love YOU too...

Carmen, Mar 17 2010, 08:39 PM wrote:

Hi to all the posters on this thread. I really like the sense of enquiry here, of getting (or attempting to) to the essense of things. I to, in my spiritual quest reserve the right to explore anything and everything, without any dualistic judgements from others. Life/creation is not black/white, God/Devil.All are aspects of the whole. Without the exploration/enquiry of All, truth is not evident.

Love and Light

Carmen

mp3, Mar 17 2010, 11:44 PM wrote:

QUOTE (malletzky @ Mar 17 2010, 02:31 PM) wrote:

In my next post, I will paste a part of the e-mail correspondence with MP3 about the thuban material and how I saw the enfolding of it on the forum.

(MP3, it is only what I wrote to you, without any "private details" of that conversation, nothing to worry here mate).

No worries here, buddy.

Adv, Mar 18 2010, 01:05 AM wrote:

Malletzky,


I whole heartedly agree with your statements in about light XXX people.

I'm trying to understand the symbology in your dream. I don't know if the edited part ( for the right reasons) had more context to the dream.

Here's what I got out of it ...

As a beings we are already pure and enlightened. There is nothing else to know or learn. As humans our conditioning , karmic dust etc masks that enlightenment. The degrees of masking is different for different people.

Once you know and realize that , there is no need to go anywhere or do anything else. It's the different degrees of realization that continues the game of existence.


Am I remotely close ?


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At the end of the day you ask, What is it all about ? The what ? The how ? The why ?

Devakas, Mar 18 2010, 04:37 AM wrote:

I was one heavy listener of the Thuban jazz, and when I was able to catch up through all those 50+ pages, the doubts started to clear up in my head. At that time the Thuban drama reached the peak. At first it was so fascinating never heard, mastery done improvisation. The logic of archetypes makes sense for me. I am glad and thankful I had the chance to hear his improvisation as food for thought and it will stay with me for long in my deep thoughts.

Sometimes it was hard to agree with the data when I saw the Abrax belief in biological evolution as starting with primitive cells and evolving the mirroring. Does it mean the Darwin theory is referenced in dragonhood database? Next I was hoping to see a nicer place for Vedas wisdom in the overall scenario, but Abrax did not want to go there and limited the flow to only Bible.

In my opinion it was great read and I wish Abrax to feel well, be good and "enjoy the ride"

I'm just putting my 2 cents in.

with much respect to all you in this mist, to Abrax and with true avalonian love,
Devakas

k626, Mar 18 2010, 11:05 AM
wrote:

For me the material wasn't as important as the phenomena...Intersting times...

Rareheart, Mar 18 2010, 08:05 PM wrote:

wrote:
I never took a lot from it that I never knew before hand... meaning that the information was a lot of rehashed or remixed stuff told in a different fashion... but I guess in one sense that is all information ever is.

The message behind the political train wreck is important.
None of it can possibly make complete logical "sense" because the subject matter itself defies description...and yes, it mirrors our internal being perfectly.

truthseeker, Mar 18 2010, 10:08 PM wrote:

Hi Folks,

I want to present my take on the Abraxas-Thuban saga over the next several posts on this forum thread. This is a bit of a cheat really, because I am copying and pasting, and then editing slightly, some posts that I recently wrote at Avalon, regarding the Abraxas witch hunt, so I apologise to those of you who have read this stuff before. However, I think their are now others here in the 'Mist' who may not have read my last few Avalon posts. So this copy and paste of my earlier stuff is really for you. Hope it helps in your understanding of what occurred at Avalon.

The following is what I wrote on the Thuban Q & A thread back on 23rd February 2010: -

Hi there everybody,

I had hoped to be asking Abraxas some more questions by now, or at least elaborations on my earlier questions (see previous post, written on 27th January). However, it looks as if this will have to wait for a bit.

It appears that this thread has once again fallen into a polarity of views (those for and against this thread and its author), as it did back in January. However, this time, with the aid of one particularly strong minded and eloquent poster, the polarization now seems even more extreme.

In my last post on this thread, I finished with the following, which seems very pertinent, again, to the conflict and opposition that has become so evident, once more, here at Avalon: -

Quote from my January 27th Post

It seems to be difficult for many here at Avalon, and elsewhere within the alternative and conspiratorial communities, to grasp that science and spirit are one, and do not need to be continuously at odds with each other. However, it is just such a polarity between fixed beliefs and opinions that has become so evident within this and so many other threads here at Avalon. There are many diverse opinions and beliefs held here by the contributors to this forum, just as there are out there in the real world. We seem to have a need to find certainty within the scientific, philosophical, political, religious and spiritual frameworks that we come to adopt during the varying phases of our individual life-cycles. This is both natural and human. However, it becomes extremely hard for us to even begin to let go of a given perspective on truth and reality that has seemingly proven itself to us. We thus hang on to the old perspective and resist any new approaches for far longer than we need to.

Abraxas, you have clearly unsettled quite a few contributors here with your presentation from the Thuban Council combined with your own scientific understandings. Hence the defensiveness and hostility you have received here from many at Avalon. We all feel very uncomfortable when yet another perspective arrives to challenge the one we are currently adopting. We often then become defensive of our own presently adopted set of opinions and beliefs and hostile toward the new perspective being presented to us.

Personally, I take your message (and anybody else�s) at face value and have no reason to doubt that you truly believe this information is coming directly from the Thuban Council. Who am I to judge? I merely weigh what you say up against other things that I have learned, and think I know, and then try to use my discernment and discretion. Of course, I rarely, if ever, have a final answer!

I certainly do not feel that you are either a fraud or a disinformation agent, as some seem to believe. I sense that you are presenting your own wisdom as experienced and received. It is, of course, possible that some of this information has been distorted by either your own personality or by the Thuban Council itself. Indeed, the latter could have its own agenda, unbeknownst to you or anyone else. This is clearly what many here at Avalon seem to suspect. However, the same can be said for any other transmitted or channeled source, including that of Ashayana Deanne, which many here seem to hold in, what I believe to be, an unreasonably high regard. I fail to understand why folk are so willing to accept her work as pure and untainted and yet believe your own transmissions are so tainted. I guess it is all a matter of belief and opinion in the end? That is until such time as any one particular approach can be clearly shown to be true or false.

Others here might think you are simply deluded. However, such could equally be said of most of the personalities presented both at Camelot and Avalon. Whilst that might be the case with a few of the whistle blowers and witnesses interviewed by Kerry and Bill, in my humble opinion, I do not feel this is the case with either yourself or many others.

In addition to the above, I do not really buy into this idea that Abraxas and his ilk (the Thuban Council) are some kind of evil reptilian or demonic entities. However, even if Abraxas is either or both of these, or the �Devil� himself, I would still be asking him questions about his perspective on humanity and the reality in which we live. By asking him questions, I am not necessarily accepting all that he and his Thuban Council state to be true. Indeed, though there is much wisdom here, in my view, I still have lots of questions about the material he has presented here and am far from convinced that what he presents is the whole truth of things. But then, as already stated, I extend a similar view, to a greater or lesser degree, to virtually every other perspective and framework I have ever heard presented, whether here at Avalon, at Camelot or elsewhere. The suggestion that I and others are mesmerized by Abraxas as he strokes our individual ego�s, simply because we engage in constructive dialogue with him, is to my mind rather melodramatic. Whether he is truly a dragon or not, I do not know? However, to my mind, whatever else he is, or indeed any of us are, he is most certainly a fellow human being with all the usual imperfections that such entails. I am sure Abraxas himself would acknowledge this. As for any other human being, I do feel their is an onus on us to treat him with respect, whether we actually agree with him or not.

As a serious student of astrology, I can not help but wonder if this polarization and conflict, as expressed on this thread, is not yet another manifestation of the ongoing Saturn-Uranus opposition. This began in 2008 and will finally come to an end later this year (2010), when these two planets make their last two exact oppositions to each other in April (Virgo-Pisces polarity) and July (Libra-Aries polarity) respectively. This clear polarization of ideas and perspectives on this Thuban thread is, to my mind, but one expression of this conflict that has or is being expressed here in this microcosm of the Avalon Forum. Others include the St. Clair-Camelot, Burisch-Camelot, Greer-Camelot, High-Camelot & Ryan-Cassidy (re. Kinsumei and the Heather material) conflicts. I also see comparable microcosmic conflicts and polarizations in my own life; in my place of work; with some particularly difficult neighbours of ours; and in relationships with certain member of my wider family. It is also clear that this same conflict and polarization is occurring in the wider world of politics (e.g. right wing-left wing and moderate-extremist conflicts), religion (e.g. Muslim-Zionist conflict) and science (e.g. main stream science-alternative science conflict) as well.

It would be nice to see some resolution too all this conflict, personal and collective, in the near future. Perhaps this will begin to occur this summer when structured and disciplined Saturn (in Libra) and unpredictable and changeable Uranus (in Aries) oppose each other for the last time in July-August of this year. At that time both of these planets also form an approximate 90� angle (a square aspect) to deeply transformative Pluto (in Capricorn). Expansive and escalating Jupiter also joins the fray when it conjoins with Uranus in Aries at that time (June-August). Even the assertive warrior, Mars, and harmonious peace-maker, Venus, join the scene for a short while in late July (Mars) to early August (Mars and Venus) as they both conjoin with Saturn in Libra, in its opposition to the Arien Uranus-Jupiter conjunction. With Pluto at the apex of this astrological configuration (known as a �T-Square�) it is likely going to be a key player in this up and coming astrological scenario. When the Moon opposes Pluto from Cancer on 6th/7th August 2010, we may then begin to see some kind of breaking point for this volatile configuration (with the Moon in Cancer it becomes what astrologers call a �Cardinal Grand Cross�). The Moon, when applied to the collective of humanity, represents the common people in conflict with, and in opposition to, the �Powers That Be� (PTB), who are best represented in this configuration by the Libran Saturn (the status quo) and the Capricornian Pluto (the secretive power elite behind the governments of our world) as they square each other (was exact on 15th November 2009 and on 31st January 2010 and will finally do so again on 21st August 2010). The Arien Jupiter-Uranus conjunction has the feel of a massive (Jupiter) unpredictable (Uranus), and potentially destructive, revolution about it, something that could hurt both the common people and the PTB. Mars with Saturn suggests draconian (no offence meant, Abraxas) actions coming from the PTB (such as martial law), though Venus� presence there too might help appease such actions somewhat.

So the conflicts here on this thread, at Avalon in general and in the wider world, do seem to be reflecting the astrological dynamics of our time. However, whether such conflicts and polarizations are resolved or not, here and elsewhere, will ultimately depend on our individual and collective levels of consciousness. So, this year, 2010, does seem to be offering us an opportunity to begin to make some changes for the better. What better place to start than from both within ourselves as individuals and as a small group of people who meet here in cyberspace on this Avalon forum.

So now would be a great time to stop the irrational, and to my mind baseless, accusations of lies, delusions or evil intentions that have so clearly been expressed, toward Abraxas, by so many of you on this fascinating thread. I think many of you need to take a closer look at yourselves before pointing fingers at others. Having said that, I would also like to thank you all (those so vehemently opposed to Abraxas) for their contributions. It would seem that this polarization of thought and the conflict it has created is part of a process that we all need to work through at this time. So thank you all for helping bring this entire dynamic to the full attention of myself and others who read this thread.

In my own case, you are truly a reflection of my own shadow self; my self-denials and my projections.

As within, so without! As below, so above!

Best Wishes

Truthseeker (Andrew)

Truthseeker, Mar 18 2010, 10:12 PM wrote:
My next post relting to the Thuban material was written on 28th February, just after the thread had been closed. I then wrote the following: -

Dear all,

I feel sad, disappointed and angry at the decision to close Abraxas� Thuban Question & Answer thread. So, yes, I am a deeply flawed emotional human being, just like those of you who chose to attack that thread with such intense and unforgiving vehemence. Personally, I found the thread informative and inspiring at times and confusing and incomprehensible at others. However, to my mind, their was absolutely no justification in closing the thread down. Bill Ryan and any moderators who supported that decision have really let both themselves and the rest of us at Avalon down.

Unlike some of you �would be� dragon slayers, I saw no evil or darkness there, certainly not from Abraxas anyway. However, many of you were clearly trying to bait Abraxas into pointless conflict. You each presented your own �truth� and �knowing�, as if it were somehow of greater validity than the Thuban perspective expressed by Abraxas. How arrogant is that? Some of you seem to think you have better �proofs� for your own version of truth than does Abraxas. However, I have seen very little, if any, undeniable and tangible proof for any given perspective presented at Avalon.

In fact to the vast majority of humanity pretty well everything that we here discuss on the Avalon forum would be deemed as either delusion, make believe or plane old quackery. Thus we are all here at Avalon part of a minority who believe that there is more to reality than the mainstream world is currently able to accept. That external majority mocks and laughs at the likes of us, who believe in such diverse things as spirits, angels, aliens, weird conspiracies, other realities and meaningful coincidences. Many think us insane, mad or deluded. Others consider us hoaxers and charlatans. Still others see us as fantasists and dreamers. In their eyes we are setting ourselves up for debunking and ridicule.

So we at Avalon are a minority in this mad and crazy world. However, within Avalon we see diverse perspectives on truth and reality, many of which contradict each other. At one extreme we have the die hard conspiracy theorists that believe a secret elite or cabal (whether human, alien or both) is controlling us. At the other we have the Love and Light faction who tell us we must only focus on positivity and love. And then we have just about everything in between. However, as I stated in my last post on the Thuban thread (see http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.ph...postcount=1271), we here at Avalon are but one example of a dynamic microcosm that reflects the equally dynamic macrocosm of the wider world around us. So, as we see conflict, opposition and polarity in the wider world, so it is here mirrored in the microcosm of the Avalon cyber community. Just as we see majority and minority views in the wider world we see the same processes at work here at Avalon. Thus we here seem to have a majority of posters on this thread who oppose the Thuban thread (around 66%) and a minority that support the thread (around 33%). This is then presented by the majority as some kind of �proof� that they are right and the rest of us are wrong. Since when has a majority perspective been representative of the truth? If that is the case, what are we doing here at Avalon? All our views are minority views. The majority views are held by Catholic and fundamentalist Christians; traditionalist and fundamentalist Muslims; materialistic scientists and rationalist academics; capitalistic economists and politicians. So are they closer to the truth, or are we, the minority, closer to the truth?

I say this to all you �would be� dragon slayers. Your emotive and irrational attack upon Abraxas (at times clearly hostile whilst at others more cryptic and subtle) only served to demonstrate your own fear of that which you do not know or understand. How very human of you all! Now we even have Bill Ryan shouting �he�s delusional�. I thought he was meant to be the beacon of reason and rationality within the Camelot Founders Duo? Is he an expert in mental health? Even if he were, is such psychiatric diagnosis of any value? As a disillusioned Mental Health Nurse myself, I think not? Modern psychiatric diagnosis is one of the biggest deceptions going. It is largely rooted in a reductionist medical model backed by the pharmaceutical industry. Kerry Cassidy has most certainly shown the greater wisdom in the current situation by suggesting that the Thuban thread not be closed. Ryan verses Cassidy! It�s that polarity thing again, me thinks.

So, I truly feel the varied claims made by a significant number of posters on the Thuban thread were rooted in an emotional reaction to something that seemed just too alien and �out of the box� for them. Claims of insult and intimidation from Abraxas were at best overstated, and at worst plane wrong. When he was a little sharp with certain posters, it was only after they had either been baiting or trying to undermine him in a previous post. Personally, I think he did extremely well to remain as unflustered as he did.

Then we have those that tell us that the Ashayana Deane material is far superior to that of Abraxas. At least Abraxas is basing the Thuban perspective on some known and verifiable scientific theory. Deane�s material has no such basis as far as I can see and yet it is just as convoluted, if not more so, in its terminology. Then we have the fundamentalist Christian contingent who tell us that Abraxas� understanding of biblical texts is that of the devil himself, or at least one of his minions, and is but a corruption of the true teachings of Christ, the apostles and the prophets. Who are we to believe?

I had so many more questions that I wanted to ask Abraxas. Unlike many here it takes me time to formulate that which I wish to ask. Like many here I did not understand the physics and math formulas and equations at all. Of those parts of Abraxas� writings I did understand, I certainly did not agree with everything I was reading. Hence my need to ask many more questions and elaborations upon some of those already asked (see http://projectavalon.net/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=939).

Sadly, now it seems I have lost the opportunity to pose further questions to Abraxas on this forum, though I may still try to contact him personally.

Finally, Bill (and/or moderators), please rethink your decision and invite Abraxas back to continue his thread. Whether he would come back after the way he has been treated, I do not know. However, give it a go.

Best Wishes,

Andrew (Truthseeker)

Tacodog, Mar 18 2010, 10:15 PM
wrote:
Great Post Truthseeker.


--------------------

The Truth is Out There

Truthseeker, Mar 18 2010, 10:17 PM
wrote:

Then on 7th March 2010, after closure of the Thuban social group and the banning of Abraxas, I wrote the following: -

Well hello Avalon,

As one of the folks that had joined Abraxas� social group, I find myself not only saddened and angered by this course of events, but deeply disturbed about what seems to be occurring here at Avalon. However, I am not really that surprised by what has occurred, as it has been building up for sometime now. This seems to be the latest in a series of events carried out by a certain small, but very vocal, group of Avalon members and moderators that appear to have been out for Abraxas from the time (or soon after) he first posted here at Avalon. This small group appear to have taken offense at some aspect or other of Abraxas� Thuban perspective and presentation. They have now thrown the sexually offensive card at Abraxas and used that as justification to both ban him and close all threads associated with him, including the social group.

Additionally, beyond the relatively small offended group, there are many that simply do not feel the Abraxas material resonates with them. They have simply, and quite rightly for themselves, kept away from the Thuban material, only now being drawn into it by the dispute that has been occurring between those that find value in Abraxas� material, but not necessarily accepting it all, and those that clearly feel offended or threatened by the material (i.e. the small group just mentioned).

This small but persistent group seem to have had very little in common with one another, other than their desire to hijack Abraxas� thread by baiting, attacking and trying undermine everything presented. None of this group, as far as I have seen, presented their arguments in a constructively critical manner. It was all emotive, irrational finger-pointing because something in Abraxas� material offended their sensibilities. This group are only unified in their dislike of Abraxas and his material and the fact that it challenges their cherished and sincerely held beliefs and opinions. For some he seemed to represent the fundamentalist Christian interpretation of the Devil or Satan, or at least one of his demonic minions. They were horrified at his use of both canonical and non canonical (not in the present day bible; e.g. The Gospel of Thomas) biblical passages, which they felt was blasphemous, considering who they believe him to be. For others he was a literal dragon, lizard or serpent (a literal negative reptilian ET, in human guise) out to delude us all so his kind can take over our planet and species. Still others were offended by his scientific writings, suggesting they were too incomprehensible and complicated. They maintained that this was part of Abraxas� ruse to confuse any who might follow him. �Blind them with science, and they will believe anything� some of the opposition to Abraxas might cry.

What none of these offended individuals could seem to see was that their very attack on Abraxas� and his material was but a projection of their own shadow material on to another (i.e. Abraxas). All that dark stuff that resides in each of us only remains so because we fail to shine the light of consciousness upon it. It is far easier to project outward and pretend that our inner demons are literal physical demons that take the form of Satan, the devil, dragons, serpents, lizards or reptilian ET�s. Yes, if we believe this strongly enough, these beings as astral or paraphysical (part astral and part physical) entities or in the guise of literal physical humans (New World Order) or ET�s (cold-blooded reptilians), will indeed attack and consume us or make us their slaves. This is precisely why we need to become both at one with and conscious of our own inner dragon and/or demons.

All this stuff about reptilian ET�s enslaving and consuming us is, at least in part, a metaphor for each of us being slaves to and consumed by our fear of the unknown darkness � the dragon or demons � within us. (Yes they can certainly manifest physically, as demons or ET�s, if such energies remain unconscious within us). Likewise, the mythology of dragon slaying by heroes such as St. George and St. Michael is, again at least in part, a metaphor for the rise of patriarchy and the subordination of women by the male dominator societies that have come to the fore over the last several thousand years. The dragon and the serpent represent the strong, powerful, sensuous and, dare I say it, sexual, feminine archetype that the angry, judgmental and fearful masculine archetype has tried to conquer and master. The ancient feminine power is now rising again. One form of this rising feminine power is the return of the dragon and the serpent. It is also represented by our planet, Gaia, as she begins to express her anger (earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, extremes of weather, etc.) at the damage that has been done to her by humanity and its patriarchal leadership.

Unfortunately, one member of either the smaller offended group or the larger disinterested group (not sure which, at this stage) is none other than one of the two co-founders of Camelot-Avalon, Bill Ryan. His opinion seems to carry a lot of weight here at Avalon at the moment. Much more so than his now ex-partner (I mean in the business sense here, though I gather that they were romantically involved in the early days of Camelot) and co-founder of Camelot-Avalon, Kerry Cassidy.

Unfortunately, Bill chose to make it very clear to the moderators, at the end of last month, that in his opinion the Thuban Q & A thread should be closed down. Bill also made it clear that he believed Abraxas was delusional. He also felt that Avalon was not the place to discuss and debate differing metaphysical frameworks. Both these opinions were highly questionable in my own humble opinion, particularly the last one regarding discussion around metaphysical frameworks. If we can not discuss such things here, where can we do so? With regard to the charge of Abraxas being delusional, I ask this. Are we not all delusional to some degree? Beliefs, opinions, judgments we all express in some form or other. These too could be considered delusional. Some say a belief in God or a higher force is delusional? What about a belief in ghosts, angels, demons, spirits or ET's?

So, Bill gave his very strongly stated opinion, leaving it up to the moderators to decide whether they close the Thuban thread or not. One of the moderators closed the thread, against his better judgment, thinking that this was what Bill had requested. He re-opened the thread a few days later, when he realised his mistake. However, the damage had been done the moment Bill expressed a very strong opinion about the Thuban material being false. This provided a lot more fuel for the little fire that the offended group had created against Abraxas. The Thuban threads days here at Avalon were surely numbered then. I will be very surprised if Bill does anything other than support the actions of the small group of moderators and members who have closed down all things Thuban and banned Abraxas. I would love to be wrong on this and will put up my hand and say so if Bill contradicts my expectation.

Bill's integrity, already in doubt for me, rests on what he does or does not do in response to this irrational and emotive witch hunt. It is my suspicion, that in good time, but probably not immediately, all things relating to channeling or downloading (watch out you Ashayana Deanne fans) from alleged higher sources will be slowly removed from Avalon, if Bill gets his way. Whilst I question many of these channeled and downloaded sources, to stop all discussion of them here at Avalon, would be, in my view, a big mistake. By the way, I do not think many, if any, of the claims made by the various whistle blowers, witnesses and contactees are any more reliable (in some cases they are less so) than most channeled sources presented here at Avalon and elsewhere. Bill gives the impression that such are more grounded in reality than the channeled sources. I see little evidence to support this contention.

Really, it appears to me, that what has gone on here at Avalon in relation to the Abraxas thread, is the latest reflection of the ongoing personal conflict between Bill and Kerry, that has become more and more evident over the past year or so. The Camelot � St. Clair, Camelot � Burisch, Camelot � Greer, Camelot � Rense, Ryan � High and Ryan � Kinsumei2 conflicts were earlier versions of this. So, their own conflict with each other is a microcosm of these other Avalon and Camelot conflicts, in my view. And yet all of those conflicts together are themselves each a microcosm of the still wider conflict we see going on across our planet. The macrocosm is reflected in the microcosm; as above, so below; as within, so without.

Many here seem to feel that Bill is the more objective and rational member of the Camelot duo and that Kerry is the more intuitive and emotional one. Whilst Kerry is clearly intuitive (as is Bill, in my opinion), but also irrational and overly emotional at times, what many Avalonians fail to see is that many of Bill�s apparently objective and rational comments and statements are merely a cover for his own quite irrational and emotional processing. He is just better at hiding his irrational side than Kerry. Bill has aired his own differences publicly with Kerry, just as she has with him. The only difference is that he has done so in a more subtle manner than Kerry. Ideally, neither of them should have bought their personal issues to either Camelot or Avalon. It is fine for them to disagree publicly, but they need to do this in a rational and objective manner and simply agree to differ. However, what has occurred here at Avalon lately is far more personal than that and there is very little objectivity occurring from either party at present. It has everything to do with a personal relationship having gone sour, in my humble opinion.

So to Bill and Kerry, I say this. Get over it, move on and stop taking your personal grievances with each other, albeit unconsciously, out on the moderators and posters here at Avalon.

I shall certainly remain a member of this forum in the short term, just to watch what goes on here as this increasing conflict either gets worse or begins to resolve itself. I might even post occasionally, if I don�t get banned after this comment. Whether I remain here in the longer term depends on how things pan out. A more dictatorial approach to what is and is not allowed here, which is what Bill seems to be proposing, will most definitely turn me away from both Avalon and Camelot. Clear evidence of a more tolerant and open approach to all perspectives will keep me interested. So watch this space on that one.

However, already, though I respect Bill and Kerry as individuals and for much of what they have accomplished, I have lost faith in the integrity of both founders of Camelot-Avalon. This also leads me to question their credibility as objective observers and recorders of the information that they gather from their various sources.

Best Wishes to you all,

Truthseeker (Andrew)

So that is pretty well my take on what has occurred in recent weeks.

Best Wishes,

Andrew

Devakas, Mar 19 2010, 03:12 AM wrote:

Very well done master TruthSeeker!

I remember your posts, you described well subjective observers.

love it!

Eleni, Mar 19 2010, 03:13 AM wrote:

Many thanks for writing those Truthseeker.

Anchor, Mar 19 2010, 03:52 AM wrote:

Perhaps there is some puss still that needs to run out of this wound. Keeping it open and in the air wont hurt much, even though it does hurt still.

Coming at the time of the PA1 -> PA2 migration sure poisoned that process.

AJ..

SuiGeneris on Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:33 am
wrote:

Dear everyone,

I don't know if anyone here knows that Abraxas (Tony) already posted a response on his Tuban Ning site http://thuban.ning.com/ about what really happened that caused him being banned and the closure of the social group. Many still think that the sexual harrasment allegation was made up, but after reading this I can understand why a man would think that his wife was being harrased. (I will post it here only because it is already online for anyone to see and I'm sure he wouldn't mind)

Abraxasinus John Paul Anthony on March 14, 2010 wrote:

Hi All here on the babysteps of a REAL Avalon or Camelot or RoudTable or whatever you might like to label it.

And my heartfelt thanks for Jonah and hipppihill to have joined with US and to John H and all of you here to have began chatting and the sharing of your ideas and impressions.

Susan has started this forum with Mary and myself and I have and am in the process of backing up the Thuban data so it cannot be lost again.

This forum here is not moderated and there are a couple of members here I have known from my old gnostic (anarchistical in the manner of OUR Logos lol) affiliations; Doug Ogilvie a scotsman and ex University of Qeensland Education Proferssor; who presently suffers from prostate cancer and like myself wishes for the metamorphosis in the wings to translate to certain redefinition of the 'suffering bodies' of the 3D biochemistry.
http://alphernet.com.au/dogilvie/

We also have Ashera (Alienne) who's 'open language' regarding 'delicate' subjects by far autmanouvers mine.
Ashera used to be a Semiotiks Professor at the University of Bremen, Germany.

So lovely Barbara, linguistic expressionisms and colloquialities on this site are welcomed, all nuances, innuendos or 'call a spade a spade' expressionas are considered Linguistoic poetry in contexts selfgenerating.

These two old friends of mine are the only noAvalonians at present.

Now the idea behind this new site is this and also a consequence of what could have potentially evolved there at Avalon.

Ok first up, I'd like to share with you what happened at Avalon, not from some conspiracy perspective, but from a rather human viewpoint.

The 'kettle blew its top' as soon as the membership of the Thuna group grew, say from 10 to 22.

Eleni and Jonah and Luminari joined as moderators.
This then became untenable to the Avalon admin.

Here was this much maligned quasi-scientist pretending to be from Thuban; who in contrast to Bill Ryan's much visited Q&A did in fact answer all the questions (to the best of his ability).

All this is ok, if just the majority of the Avalonians would have decided that the Thuban data was actually deluded nonsense and AS defined by Bill Ryan.

But whilst the majority of Avalonians did in fact avoid the sciences (an exception is Andrew Truthseeker here); there were enough Avalonians who actually received stimulation of their own search for life's meaning and such.
Some really liked the scriptural messages of the deeper meaning of spirituality and a 'higher form for the meaning of interpersonal and extrapersonal Love' and say the esoteric forms of Christianity.
Myplanet2 brilliantly discerned the inner workings and agenda of the Thuban mission and could relate to it on his own inner understandings, which of course was the intent all along.
The 12D Thuban is outside of spacetime; BUT is also within spacetime and precisely individualised in everyone as one's own personal spacetime in 3D, say labelled as Temple of the Body by Jesus and as the Merkabah in the New Age lingo.

And so the social group begun to become ALIVE as a memeplex in the 3D spacetime and with the POTENTIAL to catalyse this metamorphosis of physical realiity expected for the 2012 Mayan nexus point.

A private 3-way skype conversation between Celine Dragaon, Mary Elizabeth and myself and upon invitation by Celine, crystallized certain psychosomatic issues within Celine and her relationships.
Being well aware of causes and mentality issues regarding this, I could, with Mary E's help help to process and resolve some of very deep issues in Celine's subconscious.
The nature of these issues was sexual and so sexual archetypes and symbols became nessecity to be used.
However the drummed up 'sexual harrassment' was akin a 'patient' of Sigmund Freud on a couch describing sexual fantasies and related self expressions with the psychotherapist, the nlatter then engaing and participating in the fantasies with words and say sexual poetry (see Song of Songs in the bible KJV).
Anyway, this episode 'changed' Celine from being anti-Thuban to becoming intrigued with it on a personal level.
The 'bigger plan' was also served however; as the explosion of the subconscious in Celine could in fact manifest particular archetypes and symbols.
Now I am not the only 'pundit' on symbols here; Ashera carries academic qualifications in Semiotiks - The Science of Symbols; and shehe can shed muchy light on the underpinning agtenda here.

Celine's 'change of heart' then resulted in infighting with her husband, who authorized Tango to ban Abraxas under the pretense of 'protecting' Mary Elizabeth from the sex cult of Thuban.
Tango's own 'perdition' followed in his 'split' from Mudra and then the 'misting' of Myplanet2 after confronting Celine at her own website added the fuels to the fires of Avalonian self destrruction.

On a more rational note, three old moderators joining 'Sexy Thuban' in Eleni, Jonah and Luminari; became untenable and the long touted 'Mission of Avalon' became the next 'raison de etre' to confiscate the group postings and the old Thuban thread.

The mission statement of Avalon was to spread the light and the love and to BRING PEOPLE OF VASTLY DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALITIES YET UNITED IN A COMMON SENSE OF PURPOSE TOGETHER.

And as the sexcult from Thuban was seen to actually accomplish this within an environment of mutual respect, harmony and a common vision for a new world; this 'nasty infiltrator' had to be stopped at all costs.
As my conduct on the old Thuban thread did not warrant banning on a personal evaluation by any moderator; the 'Ground Crew' of Avalon, attempting to 'save face' as the 'Real Avalon'; attempted to obscurate the Thuban data in putting it into a social group and hoping interest would evaporate and the social group comprising only a handful of Avalon members.

So WE as a coregroup of the old Avalon were tolerated as long as OUR membership would not grow.
Avalon as an umbrella really had only two optios.

1. To encompass the Thuban data as its own and to blend with it in OPEN SUPPORT on all levels. Any unbiased observer, such as all of you here; would have seen that the Thuban data GAVE stimulation and selfempoweerment to its readers and participators.
The Thuban data so and is now a Memeplex existing in the astral (hence the messages of the psychic attacks say as from Anchor). It however is akin a 'Purging Fire' ravaging through the old for long hidden archetypes of the subconscious.

I have always claimed that the Thuban data is not mine to give as some kind of worldly authority. I am not. I am no leader and not even a teacher - I am here simply to share data for all to ponder assimilate or to reject.
I am so a simple mirror and councellor, like Freud or Jung with a Celine in psychoanalysis for example.

2. To eliminate and restrict the propagation of the Thuban data at all costs.

As all of you know; the PTB of Avalon have chosen the second option.

Thank You all and the more FREEDOM LOVERS WE can gather here, the sooner the original Thuban Group of Avalon will become reinvigorated.

I am presently working in the copying of the old Thuban thread, both on my website and here.

Susan has done a great job of saving some other threads and hopefully WE can salvage some material from the hgroup threads.
I would be grateful for any of you who have saved groupthreads, to repost them here any way you please.

Thank You all
I do Love you all
Remember there is a Mental Love fuelled by the Spirit of Love and complementary to the Emotional-Physical Love so many people continually mix up and fail to understand.

John Anthony Abraxinus

So you see, he caught his wife talking about something that he did not understand and reacted with those labels and accusations. I am neither defending him, nor condoning the controlling behavior he had afterwards; I am simply trying to understand his perspective. There WAS sexuality involved yes. That was at the core of the Thuban dispensations. At least that's how I understood it; and Abraxas seemed to be trying to help us understand the "secret" of what has been kept from us for so long to finally be able to remember how to be Love in all its expressions: mental, spiritual, emotional as well as sexual. Many rejected it because it started to discuss "sensitive" material more and more, but the group was always opened for anyone to join and inquire for themselves. Just when it was starting to get interesting... it was cut out. Do you think the timing was a coincidence? Timing is everything some say.
I thought that on the "last days" there will be nothing hiddden and that everything will be known. Well it seems there is still a force "out there" that does not agre with this. That is why I said on the Q&A thread that this information is not dangerous. I still think so. Isn't all information inside of us already anyway?
Personally, some things are still not very clear to me. Not about B&K or admin practices or rants; but on the actual practice of incorporating this mental understanding of sexual archetypes to oneself and bringing them alive. Linking the mental and the physical. Opening the wormwhole. I ask MP3 and Sacho, if you understand how to do this....please do share.

Abraxas wrote:

Many FEEL the changes; but not many can mentally process these changes of the archetypes and this 'lack of mental understanding' of course disallows this circularisation of the linear in breaking the circle at the mentality of the human merkabah.

The 'spirit' must 'marry' the 'flesh' as prophecied and encoded.
As the 'flesh ' couples to the emotions and the spirit couples to the mind in the linearity; the greatest abyss for most on this planet will be to harmonize the feelings with the thoughts.
The recent Avalonian upheavals have illustrated this dilemma of the human immaturity to think clearly and rationally to attune the human emotionality.

The symbols of 'love and light' by themselves will prove insufficient to access the astral hyperspace of a reconfigured cosmic canvas structure; albeit constructed on the LovePhoton as the hologramic basic building block for the cosmology.]

I hope this will help clear away more of "The Mists" of Avalon and help Mother Pachamama with her thinning of this "veil" between dimensions.

All my Love for you,


SuiG♥

--------------------

"Because of a great love, one is courageous" Lao Tzu

gscraig, Mar 19 2010, 02:18 PM
wrote:

Hello All,

Briefly. There were key factors I feel that were being overlooked by opinions, emotions and perspectives via the Thuban Material. Followed by poor judgement and decision making on behalf of the moderators. For some, the material wasn't about being too complex to them personally, it was the premise. Some may have understood perfectly, thus more the reason they were vocal, not because they were an idiot and therefore didn't resonate with the material.

Ultimately, the arguement then became Freedom of Speech and people having the right to choose, which I agree with. I think some of the arguement against this freedom in a sense was simply the question "was there any vetting process for this person or thread?" or did they jump on, share there wisdom proclaiming it truth and gained followers? This is similar to Project Camelots interviewing approach, thus we don't know the pretenders from true whistleblowers, but yet they all sound quite convincing with their representation of facts and expertise.

Please remember that throughout modern history, there has been some very dangerous people who hid behind Free Speech. The one that comes to mind first is Jim Jones and the infamous purple Kool aid. There were people who started vetting and questioning his concept early on and tried to warn others, but Freedom of Speech and the right to choose was triumphant. We all know the rest......Sometimes, people are simply trying to help, not infringe on personal liberties or rights. If this was where Bill was coming from, I can understand it better, and to an extent agree with the concern.

I don't buy some people were trying to prevent others from expanding their consciousness. At least not for "that" reason.

Mp3 wrote
wrote:

It would all have died down as people came to their own conclusions as to what they were looking at, instead of having a few nitwits ramming their viewpoint down everybody elses throats

If you were to take a step back MP3, you would have noticed how your actions also became defined by your own definition above.

I feel the greatest travesty of all this and still having repercussions to this date, was that the moderators did not take ownership of their actions publicly, where these actions occurred. Likewise, Bill could have stepped in as well, but then again, he might have been quite busy himself for being able to do anything. This fire then grew due to the avalanche of censoring (misting) defensive posturing, and then poorest timing of all possible to bring up PA2, and invitation only. They are volunteers, but that cannot be the trumping excuse for errors all the time. We all must grow.

Best to all,
gscraig

MP3, Mar 19 2010, 05:15 PM wrote:

QUOTE (SuiGeneris @ Mar 19 2010, 01:05 AM) wrote:

Personally, some things are still not very clear to me. Not about B&K or admin practices or rants; but on the actual practice of incorporating this mental understanding of sexual archetypes to oneself and bringing them alive. Linking the mental and the physical. Opening the wormwhole. I ask MP3 and Sacho, if you understand how to do this....please do share.

All my Love for you,


SuiGeneris

I don't know how much help I can be. I've seen many of the same things Tony points to for myself, and much of what I've come to understand about the true nature of reality jibes with Tony's descriptions, although from a different perspective and a different frame of reference. Context, if you will.

If you consider the validity of "as above, so below", you are delving into the area Tony spent a lot of time on. If God is All that Is, then how do you explain an ax murderer, or pedophile? There is nothing we experience in this life, which is not an echo or mirror of what is contained in our consciousness above. And above and below is really a linear universe interpretation anyway. There is no above or below in fact. It's all here. Now. Separation is a complete illusion in fact. There is no such thing. So there is no place we are going to. We are already there. and here. Here, now, is what it is. And even that is so only because we say it is so.

The Archetypes are simple costumes for the game we play. They are little bits of role playing software which we can dress up in to give a bit of context to the characterizations we adopt, and their interactions with other characters.

On the overall, I believe I recognize in Tony's work, the understanding of the fact that we've taken a significantly different approach to this cycle ending we are in the midst of. There would normally be a re-separation from the physical prior to another round in the game. In other words we would pull out of the physical, and dissolve our lower energetic fields, and simply go home. To our real home. This earthly home we are so enamoured of is like entering a computer game. Real enough while you're in it, but seen as a simple entertainment when you get the call to put down the controller and come to dinner. It's very attractive, both electrically and magnetically. It draws attention and involvement. Many of Tony's descriptions hint towards a reintegration here, rather than a separation back to there. This is my understanding as well. We are right now building new structures, with lots of outside help, which will enable us to bring the rest of who we truly are, here to the game. Well, not all the way here to 3D. there isn't a physical body which could hold all of who we truly are, except mayby a star. In other words, we are making space "here" for the rest of our larger being in all aspects, and this is a development beyond description.

the reintegration process is brutal, because of how little we understand from this level of consciousness of who and what we truly are. Everything we can experience or perceive is within our consciousness. All of it. Or it simply wouldn't exist. The bad, the good, the horrible, the magnificent, the beautiful, the ugly. It's all of it who we are. We can't be whole without all of it. Much of it is very hard to look at it, but that is what is required. The illusion is dissolving and we are left looking at what is there to be seen. Like it or not, it's who we are, and we can no longer pretend otherwise.

There's more, but I"m out of time, so until later, hope this helps a bit. Not sure it will.

In continuation, there are a few more points to consider in this phenomenon of this topic.

Because this is new, and because we are covering new ground as far as this cycle ending to end all cycle endings is concerned, the normal limits to our creativity are relaxed or maybe gone, limited only by what we believe we are capable of consciously.

Most have noticed that prediction doesn't work, including for the negative team. It's because there is no future, except as we improvise the potentials for one as we go. There is no destiny. There is no predetermined timeline. It's all been rendered null, because of how we ourselves have decided to end this game. We are all creators, and we are all creating. Consider the implications of that. Our next reality will be exactly what we believe it will be, in our creative expectations. Nobody else is writing our scripts right now.

Certain broad outlines are in place, and we have full creativity within those parameters. We've decided the game will now migrate into the 5th dimension. But we're not going to "wake up" there as has been the case with some of our previous outings here. We are walking all the way from here to there, with our eyes open. And we're making it up as we go. (obviously metaphoric). The more agreement that exists within our collective consciousness, will determine the shape the next playing field will take. There has already been one unexpected consequence of the way we are going about this, and that is a bifurcation in timelines, with the rough dividing line being between those who are consciously exiting the polarity consciousness embedded in all the prevailing Archetypes available here, via integration, as opposed to following "one side" to it's maximum extreme. You can ascend by driving all of your polarized perspectives all the way to one extreme or another, but the catch is you have to treat them all. You can't be full on positive in some areas and mostly negative in others. You have to become full on positive all across the boards, or full on negative all across the boards, and hold them there. You'll ascend to the next level of play if you can do that. The energy expenditure is so extreme, I think it would be just next to impossible. another pitfall is the constant descensions which occur when you withdraw energy from one area to work on another. You have to get them up and keep them up and then the next and so on, without letting the others fall back towards balance.

So we've already had a timeline split where both are running concurrently, and intermingled, with the main characteristics along the lines of leaving polarity consciousness, and the other being the strengthening of it. obviously the two can not co-exist for long because of their nature. These two main groups of consciousness, forming into collectives, are going to be splitting off all together at some point, but for now, they are overlapped, and it's extremely uncomfortable and getting more so all the time.

Tony's stuff is obviously promoting integration towards unity consciousness. He's been lighting up many of the archetypes people find uncomfortable, and drawing lines from them to the "as above" place, and demonstrating how they connect to the "so below" place. This has been very triggering for people, and behaving like a serious button pushing, if it's an area the person has been very much avoiding contact with.

Tony has adopted many biblical referents which point to these archetypes. It could be one of his familiar frames of reference (another being math/physics), or it could be that he knew that many would have these biblical referents "live" in there consciousness, and so become triggered and engaged in the process he set rolling. He'd have to answer this himself. It can only be speculated about from without.

But then he shifted gears and started organizing an activity. I think I've spotted some of what he's been heading towards with this activity, but again, it's pure speculation, and should be treated as such. He's obviously aware of the unique quality of this ascension process this time around, and has hinted at the difference several times. Because it's a new way of going about it, and because we are creating the how to as we go, the opportunity exists to use a newly formed collective consciousness to sort of steer the direction. Why someone would WANT to do that, I'm not sure. But that someone COULD do that, I'm quite certain. This doesn't speak to intent. just to the possibliity. It's possible someone could steer a newly formed and growing collective consciousness, and push it ahead of the curve where it was no following the general trends, but instead, blazing new pathways which others then have available to adopt or be drawn to. If you got a group together which just loved the whole OZ vibe, and wanted to have the next reality mirror the reality of the wizard of oz movie, with witches and wizards and living tin men and scare crows and munchkins, and flying monkeys, you could start to create agreement, and attract more agreement, and get more and more to add their energy to the collective energy and if you were able to keep it up and stay ahead of other emerging collectives, as far as gaining agreement, it's conceivable that you could create OZ in the coming reality. It's not likely, because it's so different from the current and usually the next has minor changes from the previous, but it's possible.

If you were to consider the future a blank slate, you wouldn't be too far off. Except that being creatures of habit, we are likely to migrate more in baby steps than in broad leaps. Anybody can see the developing memes already forming up. Several of them have already found homes and support in places like the avalon communities. There is the Love is all that matters grouping, there's the Evil is out to take us over and we must fight grouping, there is the we're being manipulated all over the place and must find out what's going on so we can act accordingly and escape the enslavement attempt, and what ever other groupings that exist. Alien interventionist, for example.

The present is created by us, and the future will be the product of that creation. So if you wanted the future to look a certain way, you'd be working with bright capable powerful creator beings now, and steering their creative efforts along the channels you envision as desirable, for what ever reason you have.

I don't have an opinion I'd care to share about whether Tony is engaged in such an activity, and if he is, whether it's for his own purposes, someone elses purposes, or for the greater good, or for the greater detriment. I'm not speaking about motivation here. Just possibility of an activities' existence and potential viability. Yes I think such a thing can be done, and yes I believe it's being done in various places by various individuals and groups of individuals.

We are writing new scripts, which become available for others to use as well. We are writing our solutions to problems in integrating polar opposites back into harmony into the collective consciousness, and there they are for others to use as well. My guides and my wifes guides are always thanking us for inviting them to participate in our clearing work, because helping us through these things helps them understand us and themselves better. They are sincere in their thanks. It's a mutual learning/teaching experience, and always mutually beneficial.

So Tony has an activity going on now. I haven't been there since it was pulled from Avalon's back corner. But I've talked with several participants. I still don't have my own opinion and won't venture a guess. He's doing something, and I'll assume he's doing it for a reason. Beyond that, the same could be said for anyone. It looks like he's working at developing a group which will try to get a jump start on having a say in the direction the collective conscious develops towards. But that's a non judgemental speculation. nothing more.

He's either copied or done some ground breaking work on Archetypes, and the inter-related structures of consciousness. The part of my conscious awareness available for use in this 3D world can't decipher his maths, but I know another part of my consciousness can, if they are decipherable at all. I've seen similar work in my own personal hall of records on a visit I made there once.

That's about all I can think of to say on this for now.

truthwillsetufree, Mar 19 2010, 08:23 PM wrote:

Thank you surigeneris for pulling all that together. May I add you were also correct

"Just when it was starting to get interesting... it was cut out. Do you think the timing was a coincidence? Timing is everything some say.
I thought that on the "last days" there will be nothing hidden and that everything will be known. Well it seems there is still a force "out there" that does not agree with this."


Not only do they not agree with it, they are purposely keeping this from the awareness of people so they can continue to keep the sisterhood in enslavement. This is where they derive their power from.

We also believe not only were certain people involved in century old customs pertaining to sexual activities but also that Bill's decision to remove the Thuban material and ban abraxas came from a higher level of interest.

If you look at the new guidelines for PA2




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"They" are saying this was in the works long before but given the recent history, that Andrew so eloquently explained, with the falling out of many whistleblowers, posters such as Kinsumei2, as well as the debacle with Clif High, it seems to me that Bill is showing his true colors. It looks like he wants total and complete control over what people say, with the right to edit, change and keep all material. I wrote yesterday on Jesterterestrial's thread that this is CENSORSHIP at its worst, and GaiaLove promptly came in and closed the thread. This was after misting Goddess of the Purple Light for 7 days and issuing points.

There is something deeper and darker going on here and why it was taken off so completely like it never existed and why they are taking precaution that this won't happen again.

Thank you for keeping this discussion alive and in the light of Truth

Always in Love,
Mary

truthwillsetyoufree, Mar 19 2010, 08:38 PM wrote:

Dear MP3

The clarity and wisdom of your writings always leave me in a better place than I was before and with a smile!

Thank you!

In the Light of Truth,
Mary

Spregovori, Mar 20 2010, 12:55 PM wrote:

Hei MP3...entertaining the world since 1991

Found your posts here in the mists...but i took my time to clear them mists first.

Interesting thoughts you wrote...much thinking you have done.
How about trying to find a common factor to it all?

When you decide you wish to change or create or simply to accept as it is...on what level, do you think, this occurs?

If you are in the elevator with 4 others. Three of them are 100% sure that the elevator will fall and that you will all die in agony. One refuses to face the "reality" and insists on calling the elevator repair man. You are 100% sure that whatever will happen....the final outcome will be you and the rest of the people in the elevator..walking out of it...safe, healthy and relaxed.

Who's reality will prevail? When clock hits 20h:12min all will be revealed.
Should we listen to those telling us all is evil?
Should we listen to the "let us try to fix it" guy?
Or should we decide everything will be ok...simply because we choose it to be?

If you simply choose no evil.....will you than no longer have any evil? Can the axe murderer still get you with that "no evil" frame in your mind?

How do you judge evil. Who are you or me...to judge...evil or anything else?

example 1: i choose to refuse the duality and see all that is, as it is
example 2: i choose to refuse duality and see all that is as a part of me

In which of this two examples is "evil" no longer "evil"?

When is evil...an actual evil and when is evil just a learning experience?

A child gets raped...is this a necessary experience for the future good or karmic obligation for past life transgressions?

Does each pedophile and each axe murder have their own spot under the sun and should not be look down at?
They are hear to teach and/or punish....they sacrifice their karma for the greater good?
It depends on the energy of each individual if he or she will attract one or both of the "evil specialists" mentioned above?

But since all is said to be one and one is said to be all ..it is you/me/us making this things...a need to experience in order to evolve?

Where is the limit? Just what are we suppose to learn?

How do you know it is true? How can you know what you know is true. Are you guessing, are you feeling it, are you calculating it...or....or you decide what is and or can be good for you?

When you evolve the consciousness....do you do it as you see it fit for you? Your perception of how things should be? If....than there simply is no good, there is no evil....there is just a point of view...you do not do it to create evil or good...you do it since it can serve your greater good? Or is it different?

There is no evil and or good...there are just people with intent.


How do you consider the idea of: love all (all as in - no exceptions) others as you love yourself, bond with them mentally with all your heart and soul, feel them and let them feel you, give yourself to them and accept them when they give themselves to you.....

Is there any "evil" in the above "equation"? Or has it been successfully eliminated?

What about the matter of intent?

Should the "evil" as the word be abolished and should we discuss *intent*?

Weather in creation (group or solo) weather in action (solo or group) weather in words, sounds, pictures and writing....all there ever is/was and will be....is intent.

Ask yourself...ask others: "what is your intent" ?

MP3, Mar 20 2010, 02:04 PM wrote:

Hi again, Spregovori. Nice to see you again.

You ask a lot of questions. I don't think I would like to try to answer so many. (Of course I understand the use of the rhetorical)

My general answer to the general question type, is we all have free will. We all create. We can create anything we want, which doesn't infringe anothers free will. I don't readily accept anyones assumption of the right to "do" for others. each being is the total author of their participation within all that is. And everybody is getting it right. For them. As soon as they think they have it right for others, I believe they overstepping their mandate in existence.

I believe "All that Is" allows it's self the leeway to be all that it is. Warts and all. In that light, I see Judgement and "side taking" as an artifact of 3D life and the mechanics set up to permit it to unfold via our creativity. Just an integral part of the experience here. But I also see it, or would like to see it, let's say envision for the "intent" of creating a different choice, the dissolving of judgement as a component of the interface between us Creator Beings fooling around in this totally non-serious game board of 3D.

Different beings will find their own way out of the dualistic structures by whatever path they design for themselves, or adopt from other beings creative offerings.

If we had full conscious awareness of our other, less obvious agreements and intentions, we'd probably conclude that we are improvising as smooth a transition out of the dualistic structures we've been playing in, and into a more harmonious and balanced set of game parameters. Each being will follow the path they desire. I'm sure each being will arrive at where they want to be. If we have a soul level agreement to dissolved the old dualistic structures in favour of a new set, then we will still all have full freewill choice as to how we go about that. So still allowance of all others to take the path they have chosen, would be a balanced approach, providing balance is sought.

Evil, I don't believe in it myself. I don't believe the concept of evil survives a migration out of 3D structures. evil exists, as a 3D structure we can climb around on like playground monkey bars. It's not it's own thing. It's a toy, we can play with to learn about that much prized (here anyway) "Not-Evil".

I hope I at least touched on your questions. And say also that I don't have any desire to overshadow any one elses Creativity or choice selection process. It's a big part of why I've been objecting so heartily to anyones efforts to place THEIR controls into OTHER PEOPLE'S spaces. People should, from my perspective, concentrate more on their OWN participations, than to sit in judgement of others participations, since no one really knows what another beings path is.