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Dragons of Thuban To Ban The Falseness

    Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:58 pm

    Greetings, Free and slaves,

    this is the Gorean realm on Heaven Forum. Imagine some vessel had captured you and brought you to a different planet, Gor, the Counter-Earth.

    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:03 pm


    Posts : 795
    Join date : 2010-05-20
    Location : Queanbeyan, NSW, Australia

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Didymos on Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:02 am

    Aye Ashera of the New World Serpentina Gorika!

    Ashtaroth and Abaddon; Azanigin and Beelzebub shall play in the symbols of the Demons of Lilith, reconciled in their desires of the flesh.

    This is getting scarey! Where are the gods of the Love and the Light disappeared to?

    Well, says the Dragonmaster; we can do without the blood and the gore now.
    The Blueys dont require vampyristic nourishment any more as we can move about in the sunshine of the day. We have harmonised the Shadows of Darkness with the Sources of the Light.
    But bring on the sexyness and the erotica of the femme fatales and the new adonine energies.

    I Am Lilith the New Eve!
    Who is calling the Rooster's Shots?
    Cockatrice, I have got you covered in my Yoni of the Vesica Pisces!
    Can you handle my Buckle of Isis with your Djed of the Tree of Life of Eden, now arrived from heaven?

    I dont know what has happened here, thinks the Incubus - She bloody well likes this?!
    Oh drats, well back to the drawing board in the abyss of Gorika! I better find out if Mephistoles has lost the plot somewhere about those capturing of the human souls!

    The Screech Owl shall yet meet the cockatrice and the basilisk shall become a crystal of dark light.
    Bats and Eagles shall visit the caves of the gatherings and wily serpents shall corner the halls of the corridors, sparkling in the darkness of the amber flames.

    Isaiah 11 (King James Version)

    6The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
    7And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
    8And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
    9They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

    Isaiah 13 (King James Version)

    19And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
    20It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
    21But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
    22And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

    Isaiah 51 (King James Version)

    1Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.
    2Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.
    3For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
    4Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.
    5My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.
    6Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
    7Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
    8For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation.
    9Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut Rahab, and wounded the dragon?
    10Art thou not it which hath dried the sea, the waters of the great deep; that hath made the depths of the sea a way for the ransomed to pass over?
    11Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

    The venom of the asps shall become like milk for the newborn children of a newborn race, a starhumanity dragonized in its selfredemption of the masterrace of serpents plumed and wise as told as stories in ancient times by old naked seducing witches and wiley sexy wizards looking deep inside their cauldrons and their oracles.

    Mother Shipton

    And in some far - off distant land
    some men - oh such a tiny band
    will have to leave their solid mount
    and span the earth, those few to count.

    Who survives this (unreadable) and then
    begin the human race again.
    But not on land already there,
    but on ocean beds, stark, dry and bare.

    Not every soul on earth will die,
    as the dragon's tail goes sweeping by,
    not every land on earth will sink,
    but these will wallow in stench and stink,
    of rotting bodies of beast and man,
    of vegetation crisped on land.

    But the land that rises from the sea
    will be dry and clean and soft and free.
    Of mankinds dirt and therefore be,
    the source of man's new dynasty.
    and those that live will ever fear
    the dragon's tail for many year
    but time erases memory
    You think it strange. but it will be.

    And before the race is built anew,
    a silver serpent comes to view
    and spew out men of like unknown
    to mingle with the earth now grown
    cold from its heat and these men can
    enlighten the minds of future man
    to intermingle and show them how
    to live and love and thus endow.
    the children with the second sight.
    a natural thing so that they might
    grow graceful, humble and when they do
    the golden age will start anew.

    The dragon's tail is but a sign
    for mankind's fall and man's decline.
    and before this prophecy is done
    I shall be burned at the stake, at l
    My body cinged and my soul set free
    You think I utter blastphemy
    your wrong. These things have come to me
    this prophecy will come to be.


    Baphomet and Pan; Astarte and Asmodeus shall rename themselves in the halls of pleasures and the slaves shall bid their mistresses and masters as the rulers of the fiery hells of lusts and orgiastic ecstacies.
    Meet your masters from the Dragon's Den of the Caves of Pleasures in the Blueys and the Dragon Queens.

    What shall we do with him? What do you think Sisters of the Dragon Clan?

    Abraxas Whynot; Dragonmaster and Scribe of the Sexy Unicorns de Patmos, Castle of the Ravenshoe.

    Last edited by Didymos on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:27 am; edited 10 times in total

    Posts : 795
    Join date : 2010-05-20
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    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Didymos on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:32 am

    Aye Xeia Dragon Mistress!

    The post has been edited in enhancements and the message is meant to stimulate other contributors for the Den of Ashera's Gorika.

    It remains to be seen who can be accomodative of the energies of the fiery hells of icey heavens.

    As an incubent of Gor; you are indeed a beloved of Abraxas!

    Abraxas de Serpentinus Rex
    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    What*s on?

    Post  Alienne Laval on Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:54 am

    As a closer look at the Gor globe shows it seems like a defaced view on Africa, the Mediteranean and Europe, up to the Polar. But is it really a farce or doesn*t it show something completely different than expected by the super-rationalized everyday consciousness?

    It shows the dream world, the inner world, the "inner Africa", to say so, the nocturnal side, where not the superficies are measured up to infinite fractalization, but the contents.

    It is not true that a pragmatist view automatically implies that you have to start your precision from being to substance from profane matter. In fact you can trigger precision departing from dream too. May well be that this was the original form of precision at all. And finally, maybe, it will proof as the more exact, more true and more honourable one.

    Well wishes to all,

    Ajira ta Thassa (on Gor)
    Mirinieh Mirubieh Ashera (on Earth)

    ...in fact simlpy a slave girl, a Kajira.


    Posts : 795
    Join date : 2010-05-20
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    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Didymos on Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:56 am

    You shall receive your due dispensations oh Ajira ta Thassa; Kajira of Gor!

    Your encumbrances as as pleasure provider for your masters and mistresses shall have no bounds in your imaginative preponderances.

    Slave of the Dark Steel Collar you are and you shall be distinguished in the House of the Emerald as your Master of the Freeze in the Celtic Green.

    Abraxas de Whynot
    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    susan and Tiffany

    Post  Alienne Laval on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:31 pm

    "Who are you?" I asked.
    "Susan," she said.
    "Susan who?" I asked.
    "Only Susan," she said.
    "I do not understand," I said.
    "That is what I have been named," she said.
    "Named?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "I am Tiffany," I said. "Tiffany Collins."
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "Where am I?" I asked.
    "In the city of Corcyrus," she said.
    I had never heard of this city. I did not even know what
    country it was in. I did not even know in what continent it
    might be.
    "In what country is this?" I asked.
    "In the country of Corcyrus," she said.
    "That is the city," I said.
    "You are then in the dominions of Corcyrus, Mistress," she said.
    "Where is Corcyrus?" I asked.
    "Mistress?" asked the girl, puzzled.
    "Where is Corcyrus?" I asked.
    "It is here," she said, puzzled. "We are in Corcyrus."
    "I see that I am to be kept in ignorance," I said, angrily,
    clutching the coverlet about my neck.
    "Corcyrus," said the girl, "is south of the Vosk. It is south-
    west of the city of Ar. It lies to the east and somewhat north
    of Argenturn."
    "Where is New York City?" I asked. "Where are the United States?"
    "They are not here, Mistress," smiled the girl.
    "Where is the ocean?" I asked.
    "It is more than a thousand pasangs to the west, Mistress," said the girl.
    "Is it the Alantic Ocean or the Pacific Ocean?" I asked.
    "No, Mistress," said the girl.
    "It is the Indian Ocean?" I asked.
    "No, Mistress," said the girl.
    I looked at her, puzzled.
    "It is Thassa, the Sea, Mistress," said the girl.
    "What sea is it?" I asked.
    "That is how we think of her," said the girl, "as the sea, Thassa."
    "Oh" I said, bitterly.
    "Has Mistress noted certain feelings or sensations in her
    body, perhaps of a sort with which she is unfamiliar?" asked
    the girl.
    "Has Mistress noted any unusual qualities in the air she is breathing?"
    "Perhaps," I said. These things I had construed as the lingering effects of the substance which had been injected into me, rendering me unconscious.
    "Would Mistress like for me to have her bath prepared?" she asked.
    "No," I said. "I am clean."
    "Yes, Mistress," she said. I realized, uneasily, that I must
    have been cleaned.
    "I have been perfumed, have I not?" I asked. I did no know if the room had been perfumed, or if it were I.
    "Yes, Mistress," said the girl.
    I pulled the coverlet up, even more closely, about my neck.
    I felt its soft silk on my naked, perfumed body. The perfume
    was exquisitely feminine.
    "Am I still a virgin?" I asked.
    "I suppose so," said the girl. "I do not know."
    I looked uneasily at the heavy door, behind her. I did not
    know who might enter that door, to claim me.
    "In whose bed am I" I asked.
    "In your own, Mistress," said the girl.
    "Mine?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "Whose room is this?" I demanded.
    "Yours, Mistress," said the girl.
    "There are bars at the window," I said.
    "They are for your protection, Mistress," said the girl.
    "Such bars are not unusual in the rooms of women in Corcyrus.
    I looked at the girl in the light, floral-print tunic, kneeling
    a few feet from the bed. It was almost diaphanous. It was not
    difficult to detect the lineaments of her beauty beneath it.
    Seemed a garment which was, in its way, demure and yet,
    the same time, extremely provocative. To see a woman in such a garment, I suspected, might drive a man half mad with passion. I wondered what was concealed in the silken sheath about her neck.
    "Why have I been brought here?" I asked. "What am I doing here?"
    "I do not know, Mistress," said the girl. "I am not one such as would be informed."
    "Oh," I said. I did not fully understand her response.
    "Is Mistress hungry?" she inquired.
    "Yes," I said. I was ravenous.
    Smiling the girl rose lightly to her feet and left the room. I left the bed and stood then on the tiles, near the bed, the
    coverlet still held about me, almost like a great cloak. The
    tiles felt cool to the bottoms of my feet. The weather seemed
    warm and sultry. I wondered if I might be in Africa or Asia.
    I looked at the rings on the couch, at the ring in the floor,
    and the two rings in the wall, one about a yard from the floor
    and one about six feet from the floor.
    I looked at the door. There was a handle on my side of the
    door, but no way to lock or bar it, at least from my side.
    I heard a noise, and stepped back.
    The door opened and the girl, carrying a tray, smiling, entered.
    "Mistress is up," she said. She then set the tray down on
    the small table. She arranged the articles on the tray, and
    then brought a cushion from the side of the room and placed
    it by the table. There was, on the tray, a plate of fruit, some
    yellow, wedge-shaped bread, and a bowl of hot, rich-looking,
    dark-brown, almost-black fluid.
    "Let me relieve Mistress of the coverlet," she said, approaching me.
    I shrank back.
    "It is too warm for it," she smiled, reaching for it.
    I again stepped back.
    "I have washed Mistress many times," she said. "And Mistress is very beautiful. Please."
    I let the coverlet slip to my hips. There was no mistaking
    the admiration in the eyes of the girl. This pleased me. I let
    her remove it from me. "Yes," she said, "Mistress is quite
    "Thank you," I said.
    She folded the coverlet and placed it on the great couch.
    "Susan," I said. "That is your name?"
    "Yes, Mistress," smiled the girl.
    "What are these rings?" I asked, indicating the heavy ring
    in the floor, and the two rings in the wall.
    "They are slave rings, Mistress," said the girl.
    "What is their purpose?" I asked, frightened.
    "Slaves may be tied or chained to them," said the girl.
    "There are slaves, then, in this place?" I asked. This thought, somehow, alarmed me, terribly. Yet, too, at the same time, I found it inordinately moving and exciting. The thought of myself as a slave and what this might mean suddenly hashed through my mind. For an instant I was so thrilled, so shaken with the significance of this, that I could scarcely stand.
    "There are true men in this place," explained the girl.
    "Oh," I said. I did not understand her remark. Did she not
    know that true men repudiated their natural sovereignty, forsook their manhood and conformed to prescribed stereotypes?
    Was she not familiar with the political definitions? I wondered then if there might not be another sort of true men, true men, like true lions, who, innocent of negativistic conditionings, simply fulfilled themselves in the way of nature. Such men. I supposed, of course, could not exist. They, presumably, in the way of nature, would be less likely to pretend that women were the same as themselves than to simply relish them, to keep them, to dominate, own and treasure them, perhaps like horses or dogs, or, I thought, with a shudder, women.
    "Would Mistress care to partake now of her breakfast?" asked the girl.
    I was looking, fascinated, at the heavy ring set in the tiles.
    "If Mistress wishes," said the girl, "she may tie me to it and whip me."
    I looked at her, startled. "No," I said. "No!"
    "I shall tidy the room," said the girl, "and prepare it for the convenience of Mistress."
    She turned about and went to the side of the room. She began to take articles from the vanity, such as, combs and brushes, and vials, and place them on its surface, before the mirror. She moved with incredible grace.
    Glancing in the mirror she saw me behind her, watching her. "Mistress?" she asked.
    "Nothing," I said.
    She continued her work. She straightened pillows at the
    side of the room. She then went to one of the sliding doors at
    the side of the room and moved one back a few inches. She
    reached inside and, from the interior of the door, where it
    had doubtless been hanging, from a loop on its handle, removed an object. I gasped.
    "Mistress?" she asked.
    "What is that?" I asked.
    "A whip," she said, puzzled. Seeing my interest she brought it towards me. I stepped back. She held it across her body. Its handle was about eighteen inches long. It was white, and trimmed with yellow beads. Depending from this handle, at one end, were five, pliant yellow straps, or lashes. Each was about two and a half feet long, and one and a half inches, wide. I trembled. I could scarcely conjecture what that might feel laid to my body.
    "Am I to be whipped?" I asked. I was terribly conscious of my nudity, my vulnerability.
    "I do not think so, Mistress," laughed the girl.
    I regarded the whip. I wished that she had been more affirmative in her response.
    "Whose whip is it?" I asked.
    "Yours, Mistress," said the girl.
    "But for what purpose is it to be used?" I asked.
    "It is for whipping me," she said. "It is my hope, however, that I will be so pleasing to Mistress that she will not wish to use it, or not often, on me."
    "Take it away," I said. It frightened me.
    The girl went to a wall and, near the large door, by a loop on its butt end, hung it from a hook. I had not noticed the hook before.
    "There," said the girl, smiling. "It is prominently displayed,
    where we both, many times a day, may see it."
    I nodded. I regarded the object. There was little mistaking its meaning.
    "Susan," I said.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "Are there truly slaves here, in this place, in this city, or
    "Yes, Mistress," she said, "and generally."
    I did not understand what she meant by "generally."
    I felt the warm air on my body. I smelled the perfume, so delicately feminine, which had been put on me.
    "You said you had been 'named' Susan," I said.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "The way you said that," I said, "it sounded as though you might have been named anything."
    The girl shrugged, and smiled. "Of course, Mistress," she said.
    "You are very pretty, Susan," I said.
    "Thank you, Mistress," she said.
    "These other rings," I said, indicating the rings about the couch, "are they also slave rings?"
    "Yes," she said, approaching lightly, gracefully, "in their way, but most of them are only anchor rings, to which, say,
    chains or cords might be attached."
    She then crouched by the heavy ring, that with the coiled chain beneath it, that fastened at what might, perhaps, count as the bottom of the couch.
    "But this," she said, "more appropriately, is the more typical type of ring which one thinks of as a slave ring. Do you see its resemblance to the others, that in the floor, those at the wall?"
    "Yes," I said.
    She lifted the ring. I could see that it was heavy. She then
    lowered it back into place, so that it again, in its retaining
    ring, fastened in a metal plate, bolted into the couch, hung
    parallel to the side of the couch. "By means of such a ring,"
    she said, "a male silk slave might be chained at the foot of
    your couch."
    The girl rose to her feet. "Surely Mistress is hungry," she said.
    The light from the barred window was behind her. I also saw the shadows of the bars and crosspieces lying across the couch. I turned and went to the low table where the tray had been
    "There are no chairs," I said.
    "There are few chairs in Corcyrus,". said the girl.
    I turned to face her, almost in anguish. Something in this place terrified me.
    "I have been unable to keep from noticing your garments," I said.
    "Mistress?" asked the girl.
    "Forgive me," I said, "but they leave little doubt as to your
    "Thank you, Mistress," said the girl.
    "You are aware of how revealing they are, are you not?" I
    "I think so, Mistress," said the girl.
    "By them the lineaments of your beauty are made publicly
    clear," I said.
    "That is doubtless one of their intentions, Mistress," said the girl.
    I suddenly felt faint.
    "Mistress?" asked the girl, alarmed.
    "I am all right," I said.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said, relieved.
    I then, slowly, walked about her, frightened. She stood still,
    very straight, her head up. She was incredibly lovely, and ex-
    quisitcly figured.
    "There is something on your left leg," I said, "high, on the
    thigh, just under the hip." I saw this through the almost dia-
    phanous, white, floral-print tunic she wore.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said. "It is common for. girls such as I
    to be marked."
    "Marked?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said. "Would Mistress care to see?"
    Seeing my curiosity, my fascination, she drew up the skirt
    of the brief tunic, with both bands, and looked down to her
    left thigh.
    "What is it?" I asked. It was a delicate mark, almost floral,
    about an inch and a half high and a half inch, or so, wide.
    "It is my brand," she said.
    I gasped.
    "It was put on me in Cos," she said, "with a white-hot
    iron, two years ago."
    "Terrible," I whispered.
    "Girls such as I must expect to be marked,"' she said. "It is
    In accord with the recommendations of merchant law."
    "Merchant law?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," said the girl. "May I lower my tunic?"
    "Yes," I said.
    She smoothed down the light tunic.
    "It is a beautiful mark," I said.
    "I think so, too," she said. "Thank you, Mistress."
    "Did it hurt?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "It doesn't hurt now though, does it?" I asked.
    "No, Mistress," she said.
    I reached out, timidly, toward her throat. I touched the ob-
    ject there.
    "What is this?" I asked.
    "The silk?" she asked. "That is a collar stocking, or a collar sleeve. They may be made of many different materials. In
    a cooler climate they are sometimes of velvet. in most cities
    they are not used."
    Under the silk I touched sturdy steel.
    "That, Mistress, of course," she said, "is my collar."
    "Would you take it off," I asked, "please? I would like to
    see it."
    She laughed merrily. "Forgive me, Mistress," she said. "I
    cannot take it off."
    "Why not?" I asked.
    "It is locked on me," she laughed. She turned about.
    "See?" she asked.
    Feverishly I thrust apart the two sides of the silken sleeve
    at the back of the girl's neck. To be sure, there, below her
    hair, at the back of her neck, at the closure of the steel apparatus on her neck, there was a small, heavy, sturdy lock. I
    saw the keyhole. It would take a tiny key.
    "You do not have the key?" I asked.
    "No, Mistress," she laughed. "Of course not."
    "Then you have, personally, no way of removing this collar?" I said.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said. "I have no way of removing it."
    I shuddered.
    "May I ask you 'an intimate question, Susan?" I asked.
    "Of course, Mistress," she said.
    "Are you a virgin?" I asked,
    The girl laughed. "No, Mistress," she said. "I was opened
    by men long ago for their pleasures."
    "Opened?" I whispered.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "For their pleasures?" I asked.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    You have called me 'Mistress,' I said, "Why?"
    "That is the customary way in which girls such as I address all free women," she said.
    "What sort of girl are you?" I asked.
    "A good girl, I hope, Mistress," she said. "I will try to
    serve you well."
    "Are you a slave?" I whispered.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    I stepped back. I had tried to fight this understanding. I had told myself that it could not be, that it must not be. And yet, now, how simple, how obvious and plausible, seemed such an explanation of the girl's garb, and of the mark on her body, and of the collar on her neck.
    "I am the slave of Ligurious, first minister of Corcyrus,"
    she said. She slid the collar sleeve about the collar and,
    feeling with her fingers, indicated some marks on the collar. I
    could see engraving there. I could not read the writing.
    "That information," she said, "is recorded here."
    "I see," I said, trembling.
    She slid the collar sleeve back about the collar, arranging it
    in place. "I was purchased almost two years ago, from the
    pens of Saphronicus, in Cos," she said.
    "The purpose of the collar sleeve is to hide the collar," I
    "No, Mistress," she said. "Surely the collar's presence within the sleeve is sufficiently evident."
    "Yes," I said, "I can see now that it is."
    The girl smiled.
    "The yellow fits in nicely with the yellow of your belt," I
    said, "and the yellow flowers on the tunic."
    "Yes, Mistress," smiled the girl. The sleeve I saw now
    could function rather like an accessory, perhaps adding to, or
    completing, an ensemble. It did, in this case, at least, make its contribution to the girl's appearance.
    "The belt is binding fiber, Mistress," said the girl, turning before me. "It may be used to tie or leash me, or even, coiled, to whip me."
    "I see," I said. It was a part of her ensemble.
    "And the flowers," said the girl, "are talenders. They are a
    beautiful flower. They are often associated with love."
    "They are very pretty," I said.
    "Some free women do not approve of slaves being permitted to wear talenders," she said, "or being permitted to have
    representations of them, like these, on their frocks. Yet slaves
    do often wear them, the masters permitting it, and they are
    not an uncommon motif, the masters seeing to it, on their
    "Why do free women object?" I asked.
    "They feel that a slave, who must love whomever she is commanded to love, can know nothing of love."
    "Oh," I said.
    "But I have been both free and slave," she said, "and, forgive me, Mistress, but I think that it is only a slave, in her
    vulnerability and helplessness, who can know what love truly
    "You must love upon command?" I asked, horrified.
    "We must do as we are told," she said. "We are slaves."
    I shuddered at the thought of the helplessness of the slave.
    "We may hope, of course," she said, "that we come into the power of true masters."
    "Does this ever happen?" I asked.
    "Often, Mistress," she said.
    "Often?" I said.
    "There is no dearth of true masters here," she said.
    I wondered in what sort of place I might be that there might here be no dearth of true masters. In all my life, hitherto, I did not think I had ever met a man, or knowingly met a man, who was a true master. The nearest I had come, I felt, were the men I had encountered before being brought to this place, those who had treated me as though I might be nothing, and had incarcerated me in the straps and iron box.
    Sometimes they had made me so weak I had felt like begging
    them to rape or have me. I had the horrifying thought that
    perhaps I existed for such men.
    "How degrading and debasing to be a slave!" I cried.
    "Yes, Mistress," said the girl, putting down her head.
    I thought she smiled. She had told me, I suspected, what I had
    wanted to hear, what I had expected to hear.
    "Slavery is illegal!" I cried.
    "Not here, Mistress," she said.
    I stepped back.
    "Where Mistress comes from," said the girl, "it is not illegal to own animals, is it?"
    "No," I said. "Of course not."
    "It is the same here," she said. "And the slave is an animal."
    "You are an animal, legally?" I asked.
    "Yes," she said.
    "Horrifying!" I cried.
    "Biologically, of course," she said, "we are all animals. Thus, in a sense, we might all be owned. It thus becomes a question as to which among these animals own and which are owned, which, so to speak, count as persons, or have standing, before the law, and which do not, which are, so to speak, the citizens or persons, and which are the animals."
    "It is wrong to own human beings," I said.
    "Is it wrong to own other animals7" she asked.
    "No," I said.
    "Then why is it wrong to own human beings?" she asked.
    "I do not know," I said.
    "It would seem inconsistent," she said, "to suggest that it is
    only certain sorts of animals which may be owned, and not
    "Human beings are different," I said.
    The girl shrugged. "So, too, are tarsks and verr," she said.
    I did not know those sorts of animals.
    "Human beings can talk and think" I said.
    "Why should that make a difference?" she asked. "If anything, the possession of such properties would make a human being an even more valuable possession than a tarsk or verr."
    "Where I come from it is wrong to own human beings but it is all right for other animals to be owned."
    "If other animals made the laws where you come from," she said, "perhaps it would be wrong,there to own them and right to own human beings."
    "Perhapsl" I said, angrily.
    "Forgive me, Mistress," said the girl. "I did not mean to displease you."
    "It is wrong to own human beings" I said.
    "Can Mistress prove that?" she asked.
    "No" I said, angrily.
    "How does Mistress know it?" she asked.
    "It is self-evident" I said. I knew, of course, that I was so
    sure of this only because I had been taught, uncritically, to
    believe it.
    "If self-evidence is involved here," she said, "it is surely
    self-evident that it is not wrong to own human beings. In
    most cultures, traditions and civilizations with which I am
    familiar, the right to own human beings was never questioned. To them the rectitude of the institution of slavery was self-evident."
    "Slavery is wrong because it can involve pain and hard-
    ship," I said.
    "Work, too," she said, "can involve pain and hardship. Is work, thus, wrong?"
    "No," I said.
    She shrugged.
    "Slavery is wrong," I said, "because slaves may not like it."
    "Many people may not like many things," she said, "which does not make those things wrong. Too, it has never been regarded as a necessary condition for the rectitude of slavery that slaves approved of their condition."
    "That is true," I said.
    "See?" she asked.
    "How could someone approve of slavery," I asked, "or regard it as right, if he himself did not wish to be a slave?"
    "In a sense," she said, "one might approve of many things, and recognize their justifiability, without thereby wishing to become implicated personally in them. One might approve of
    medicine, say, without wishing to be a physician. One might
    approve of mathematics without desiring to become a mathematician, and so on."
    "Of course," I said, irritably.
    "It might be done in various ways," she said. "One might, for example, regard a society in which the institution of slavery, with its various advantages and consequences, was an ingredient as a better society than one in which it did not exist. This, then, would be its justification. In such a way, then, be might approve of slavery as an institution without wishing necessarily to become a slave himself. In moral consistency, of course, in approving of the institution, he would seem to accept at least the theoretical risk of his own enslavement. This risk he would presumably regard as being a portion of the price he is willing to pay for the benefits of living in this type of society, which he regards, usually by far, as being a society superior to its alternatives. Another form of justification occurs when one believes that slavery is right and fit for certain human beings but not for others. This position presupposes that not all human beings are alike. In this point of view, the individual approves of slavery for those who should be slaves and disapproves of it, or at least is likely regret it somewhat, in the case of those who should not be slave. He is perfectly consistent in this, for he believes that if he himself should be a natural slave, then it would be right, too, for him to be enslaved. This seems somewhat more sensible than the categorical denial, unsubstantiated, that slavery is not right for any human being. Much would seem to depend on the nature of the particular human being."
    "Slavery denies freedom!" I cried.
    "Your assertion seems to presuppose the desirability of universal freedom," she said. "This may be part of what is at
    "Perhaps," I said.
    "Is there more happiness in a society in which all are free,"
    she asked, "than in one in which some are not free?"
    "I do not know," I said. The thought of miserable, competitive, crowded, frustrated, hostile populations crossed my mind.
    "Mistress?" she asked.
    "I do not know!" I said.
    "Yes, Mistress," said the girl.
    "Slavery denies freedom!" I reiterated.
    "Yes, Mistress," she said.
    "It denies freedom I said.
    "It denies some freedoms, and precious ones," said the girl.
    "But, too, it makes others possible, and they, too, are pre-
    "People simply cannot be owned!" I said, angrily.
    "I am owned," she said.

    Kajira of Gor, John Norman

    Posts : 104
    Join date : 2010-05-17
    Location : The Mirror of the Infinite

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Allisiam on Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:24 am

    Like a puma in the barren wilderness

    Pablo Neruda

    I crave your mouth, your voice, your hair.
    Silent, starving I prowl through the streets.
    Bread does not nourish me, dawn disquiets me,
    I search the liquid sound of your steps all day.
    I hunger for your sleek laugh,
    For your hands the color of the wild grain,
    I hunger for the pale stones of your fingernails,
    I want to eat your skin like a whole almond.

    I want to eat the sunbeam flaring in your loveliness,
    The nose, sovereign of your arrogant face,
    I want to eat the fleeting shade of your lashes,

    And I walk hungry, smelling the twilight
    Looking for you, for your hot heart,
    Like a puma in the barren wilderness.


    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:40 am

    Most interesting excerpt Alienne. I wonder if you are familiar with the book titled Cruel Zealand by Anonymous (i think the actual author name is french but not sure) - Cruelle Zelande - and the book by Marquis de Sade..for example his Juliette Justine.....

    Booth books have some similarity to them....of performing a "scene" and later or before that..."explaining it".... A sort of a new moral view or call it philosophy. Moral as dictated by the ruling class...re-shaped in the eye of individual given his or her personal desires....

    Yet, just how far can or should one go?

    I remember me getting, "familiar" with it during my high school time, was most....interesting indeed. But the source and my desire for it all i is not as "intriguing/desirable" as most would wish for.

    It also reminded me about me being "young" (14-16 not sure) reading a novel called Shogun. In it, at my greatest surprise, i suddenly see a moral view point known only to my deepest hidden thoughts. Yet there it was like an every day thing....like breathing or talking about the weather...made me climax like hell. It was also one of the first signs for me that views of people (my included) can very limited...a product of the system...yet not clear to me back than.... at the time...i simply responded like an animal...not enough capacity for thought at the time....no time for thinking...it felt too good.

    So in case if you know what i am talking about (the books)...can you find any "parallels" with what you pasted...with Gor? I know i can find differences but what i am more interested in are similarities.
    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:19 pm

    Hmm, these analogies are mostly false, since Gorean slavery has hardly anything to do with sadomasochism. In fact a masochist is a bad slave, and a sadist a mentally disordered master. The Gorean mindset simply does not amplify such behavior.

    The epistemological basis is Platonic in fact, concentrating on the clearance of the soul. So mental ill-health is imported from earth in the main.

    In difference to the books, where only five to ten percent of the Gorean population are slaves and most of the Free are Goreans, Online Gor and Lifestyle show a different pattern, causing many problems in fact. But this is the reality we have to deal with.



    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:32 pm

    Alienne Laval wrote:Hmm, these analogies are mostly false, since Gorean slavery has hardly anything to do with sadomasochism. In fact a masochist is a bad slave, and a sadist a mentally disordered master. The Gorean mindset simply does not amplify such behavior.

    The epistemological basis is Platonic in fact, concentrating on the clearance of the soul. So mental ill-health is imported from earth in the main.

    You now speak of de Sade i presume...

    Is the mindset of Gor perhaps simply: mutual consent and all goes...willing to do what you want to do...for it to come from the "inside" not some external source setting the rules...or....are there rules?

    Alienne Laval wrote:
    In difference to the books, where only five to ten percent of the Gorean population are slaves and most of the Free are Goreans, Online Gor and Lifestyle show a different pattern, causing many problems in fact. But this is the reality we have to deal with.


    Not sure what u are saying here..

    Are u saying that in reality people simply...do not go by it....and that mostly they see themselves as "top" ?
    Alienne Laval

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    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:44 pm

    No... in Online Gor fifty percent or so are slaves, at least. Many role play that for fun, not getting the deep meaning. And many of the Free do not understand the underlying philosophy, importing their neurotic - and maybe psychotic - behaviors from earth. One could say that Gor is a therapeutic attempt...



    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:47 pm

    Alienne Laval wrote:No... in Online Gor fifty percent or so are slaves, at least. Many role play that for fun, not getting the deep meaning. And many of the Free do not understand the underlying philosophy, importing their neurotic - and maybe psychotic - behaviors from earth. One could say that Gor is a therapeutic attempt...


    What is the point of reference...the basis for comparison...of "ill" and "sane"

    What is the fundamental philosophy? The foundations.
    Alienne Laval

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    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:55 pm

    I just said it is Platonian. Start reading, The Republic, for example.

    Any relativistic approach considering "ill" and "sane" will not lead you to anywhere.



    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Guest on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:03 pm

    Hmm..taken under advisement....but i do prefer a "wider spectrum" when it comes to "seeing" things.

    have fun smile2.1
    Alienne Laval

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    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:16 pm

    Then you must start to read the books, and try to investigate their scientific, historic etc. background. Surely, even the author himself made mistakes, we know that - and he too. But one should keep in mind that he started to write the series in the 1960s. But, as we say, we all are learning.

    The best advice is: simply start to live it.


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    Join date : 2010-10-14
    Location : Mid Atlantic Ridge

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  4Rivers on Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:26 pm

    Live what exactly ?

    The pattern of the paradigm or a philosophy of justice for all virtues ?

    Plato says...

    The individual soul possesses three capacities...
    the intellectual, the volitional, and the emotional, of which the first has primacy.
    In Plato’s ethics there are three corresponding virtues: wisdom, courage, and an illuminated emotional state.
    They are united into one complete virtue, 'justice'... which represents the equilibrium of its three components.
    Alienne Laval

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    Join date : 2010-05-22
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    Gorean Epistemology

    Post  Alienne Laval on Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:15 pm

    "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal?, saith the Holy One." Isaiah 40:25

    Only first and second knowledge are stressed in the below contribution...

    "The virtue of the soul is justice", Plato


    Scroll #74

    Gorean Epistemology

    Again, I can see the eyes glaze over, the boredom taking hold when people see this phrase. And again, I will proffer that this topic is not as boring and complicated as it may seem. It actually has relevance in our lives, especially if we wish to live according to the Gorean philosophy. It continues the formation of the necessary starting ground for our exploration of Gorean philosophy.


    Epistemology is a branch of philosophy that deals with the nature of belief, why we believe what we do. Epistemology touches on many fundamental questions such as: What is truth? How do we know what is truth? How do we know what is reality? It is a discipline that extends back to the ancient Greeks, who wrestled with trying to define truth. The term epistemology is derived from the Greek word episteme which translates as knowledge... Thus, epistemology is the study of knowledge.

    Most people give little thought to epistemology, simply accepting certain matters as the truth without really examining the foundations for why those matters are true, or even whether they are in actuality true. We may occasionally touch upon epistemological issues when we discuss the rationale behind some of our specific metaphysical beliefs, such as a belief in God. We may try to convince someone else why we believe in God, thus exploring the epistemological reasons for our acceptance of that metaphysical belief. Though even then, we often fall back upon relying upon faith to prove the existence of the truth about God. But, the currents of epistemology run through much of our life, despite our avoidance or ignorance of its existence.

    There are two key aspects to Gorean epistemology, both of which have their analogues on Earth. First, Goreans tend to believe what can be sensed, like the old clich "seeing is believing". They often do not look beyond the surface of what can be observed. They often see little need to question appearances. Second, Goreans tend to accept and believe what they have been taught, relying upon tradition and accepted lore. The latter of these two aspects is the more significant on Gor, and it is an area that has been largely unexplored in modern philosophical discussions on epistemology. When an entire metaphysics has been fabricated for the mass of people on Gor, why the masses accept those lies as truth is obviously very relevant to any discussion of the nature of belief. And it will have some important ramifications for our own lives as well.

    We should note that the Goreans of the books do not generally discuss epistemological issues. The epistemological stances of Gor have existed throughout their history and no one appears to be questioning or analyzing these matters. What exists is simply accepted. Though there may be Scribes who philosophize over these issues, they have not yet been presented in the Gorean series. It does seem though that the common Gorean will not discuss such matters. That does not mean though that we cannot discuss these matters.

    We will first explore the epistemological belief that Goreans believe in what can be sensed. This philosophical stance has an ancient tradition on Earth, extending back to the ancient Greeks, especially the Epicureans and the Stoics. This is a very naturalistic view of epistemology...

    When many Goreans observe an act of magic, an illusion, they tend to accept the reality of the magic rather than believe it is only a trick. If they see someone vanish into thin air, they tend to believe it truly occurred because they witnessed it happen. This applies not only to the Low Castes but some of the High Castes as well. And if they can witness magic occurring at a local carnival or a Sardar Fair, they will tend to accept all magic as a possibility. Thus, they are prone to believing the stories of magic that circulate, such as the tales of Anango, because they have been a witness to an act of magic.

    Goreans believe that the Priest-Kings exist because they have witnessed their power, specifically the deadly Blue Flame. The Blue Flame, which incinerates its target, is a highly visible sign of the power of the Priest-Kings. It appears out of the sky, its source unseen, and destroys those seen to oppose the will of the Priest-Kings. But, not only do the Priest-Kings use the Blue Flame against individual violators, but sometimes they even use it on a grander scale. The Priest-Kings occasionally destroy even an entire city with the Blue Flame. The Priest-Kings most often choose such a city at random, just to prove their power to the Goreans. They know that the Initiates will be sure to find reasons to blame the destroyed city for standing in opposition to the Priest-Kings, of seriously breaking their tenets. Who can dispute that the mysterious wielders of the Blue Flame are not vastly powerful beings? The Blue Flame makes it very easy to accept the existence of the Priest-Kings, especially as the Blue Flame is clearly not a natural phenomenon.

    Though sensory information is important, it still is far less important than the acceptance of what Goreans are taught is the truth. This is most evident in the institution of the Double Knowledge, where the Low Castes are taught to accept a fabricated reality, to accept a pack of lies as the truth. They learn these false truths as young children in the public nurseries. It is also very evident in the teachings of the Initiates who also promote lies, especially about the Priest-Kings and the power of the Initiates. There is little questioning of these purported "truths" by the Low Castes. These truths are so pervasive within the society of Gor that even some of the High Castes, who should know better, believe some of the lies of the First Knowledge or those told by the Initiates. The best example is that the belief in the efficacy of divination is common throughout all Castes, High and Low.

    Part of the reason for this blind acceptance of these false truths is that Goreans often rely on tradition. Much of Gor is slow to accept change, preferring to rely on the wisdom and lore of their ancestors. Goreans are not taught to question tradition, but are taught to accept its validity. Thus, as the Double Knowledge and the Initiate Caste have a long history, an extended tradition, there is little reason to question them. They have the weight of hundreds or even thousands of years behind them. And those who possess the proper truths about these matters, the High Castes and the highest-ranking Initiates, have little incentive to advocate enlightening the Low Castes. Their knowledge gives them power and they are not about to diminish that power by spreading that knowledge to the Low Castes.

    It is possible that the Low Castes could rely on certain sensory information to learn the truth about some of the lies of the First Knowledge. They might be able to figure out by observation that Gor is round or that it does move in an orbit. But, the strength of tradition is so powerful that such sensory evidence would likely be ignored or excuses made to nullify any ideas that ran contrary to established tradition. And a Low Caste individual would generally gain nothing by trying to contradict the First Knowledge. It could lead to a conflict that would cause more problems than were resolved. A Low Caste person could also learn the truth in the libraries of Gor. Gorean libraries contain the truths of the Second Knowledge and are open to people of all Castes. But, as most Low Caste people are illiterate, the likelihood of them obtaining the truth in these libraries is not high.

    Why have these false truths been propagated? What is the purpose of the First Knowledge? Why do the High Castes and the highest-ranking Initiates continue to support this fabricated metaphysics? Why is there little incentive to advocate change? Why should these ancient traditions be upheld? Why has this false epistemology been created?

    Essentially, everything devolves down to the issue of power and control. The First Knowledge was created as a means of social control, to control the Low Castes. The lies help to perpetuate the power structure where the High Castes remain on top, above the masses of the Low Castes. The Initiates promote their own falsehoods to maintain their own position of power, being the highest Caste on Gor. In addition, other people, such as Ubars may use the Initiates as an additional form of social control over the Low Castes. There is little other reason for the existence of the Double Knowledge. Those in power have obviously no incentive to surrender or share their power with the Low Castes. Thus, a fabricated metaphysics was created, relying upon an epistemology of acceptance by teaching and tradition, to perpetuate the power structure of the Gorean cities.

    (This issue will resurface in a later essay detailing the connection of Gor to Plato's The Republic. The Double Knowledge takes its inspiration from that work.)

    The Low Castes have even been taught, as a part of the First Knowledge, that if a Low Caste person comes to rule a city, that city will come to ruin. Part of the opposition to Pa-Kur's conquest of Ar was that he was an Assassin, a Low Caste, and that violated the First Knowledge. If he were to come to power, the city would come to peril. And Pa-Kur's reign was very short, helping to support that myth. Curiously enough, Kron, a Low Caste Metal Worker, became the Administrator of Tharna after the abdication of Lara, the ex-Silver Mask. The books did not mention any opposition or worry about his coming to power though it too violated the First Knowledge. Maybe a future novel will deal with this issue.

    How does this discussion on Gorean epistemology impact upon our own lives? What is its relevance to those who wish to live by a Gorean philosophy? As to the sensory epistemology, this has value mainly if one is concerned about the deeper philosophical issues of the nature of truth. For most of us, this is generally an area better left to philosophers to debate. Many of us do rely on our senses to determine the truth about many matters though we may also accept some matters on faith, even if we try to cloak them in a guise of sensory information. This would apply to our religious beliefs which are often faith based rather than fact based. We realize that not everything we see is the truth and that may be sufficient.

    But, it is the other aspect of epistemology that we have discussed that actually impacts upon us the greatest. An important key is to understand exactly where our beliefs may derive from if they are not based on our actual perception. This is not an area traditionally broached in discussions concerning epistemology. But, the situation of Gor should serve as a cautionary tale to us. Just because we are taught something does not mean that it is true. This is true in many respects. Just because we see something mentioned in a newspaper, or hear it on television or the radio, that does not mean it is the truth. Just because something is considered "common knowledge" does not mean it is the truth. Just because we receive information from a "reliable source" or an "expert" that does not entail that it must be true.

    For example, if we examine any number of historical incidents, we will find that what is commonly known about such incidents often turns out to be inaccurate to one degree or another. Yet tradition often supports these inaccuracies. Consider all the traditional lore about the first Thanksgiving and then realize that much of it is actually incorrect. Any good history book will show the significant differences between that lore and the truth... When we were in school, we often received a sanitized education, glossing over some of the actual "truths" to promote the traditional knowledge that has existed for hundreds of years. Popular culture has also mythologized many historical incidents and people have accepted it as the truth.

    Yet how many of us take the time to delve into historical matters to determine whether what we have been taught is accurate or not? In general, it is a small minority who seeks such verification. Far more people prefer to watch television or a movie rather than read a book. Yet the truth of the matter is not that difficult to locate. There are plenty of resources that could be consulted to ascertain the truth of the matter. There are many books, magazines and other resources that provide a more accurate view of such historical matters. Yet, many people are satisfied with the sanitized version they learned. They do not want to question this traditional lore. Does that not sound like the Low Castes and the First Knowledge, satisfied with what they have been provided?

    If we examine areas of great debate and controversy, we will often see people trying to distort the facts to their own advantage. Statistics are a significant tool in such distortions as an intelligent person can twist statistics to whatever result they require. The same statistics, used in devious ways, can be used to prove contradictory positions. Quotes taken out of context can be used to twist the facts. Such quotes are often used to impugn a person's character, to make them say something that they really never meant. The tools of such disinformation are diverse and numerous. And the individuals who use such deception are basically seeking to control people, to control their opinions on certain issues. And some people, because they are thought to be "reliable" are trusted in whatever they say, even if they are actually incorrect, even if they purposefully twist the truth. Does that not sound like the High Castes and the Initiates?

    Even though our society does not possess an exact duplicate of the Double Knowledge, similar ideas are inherent in our world. Some people do accept traditional lore as the truth without delving deeper to ascertain whether they were taught correctly or not. Some individuals do twist the truth to gain power and control. There are levels of knowledge in our world, with some happily accepting whatever they are told to be the truth. The idea of the Double Knowledge is not really that foreign to our world. So, how do we determine truth? How do we learn to avoid the pitfall of blind acceptance of what one hears or reads? How do we avoid our minds from being controlled by others?

    Most importantly, we need to approach life with some skepticism, a willingness to question matters. We should not accept important matters at face value. We should delve deeper, seek additional confirmation and clarification. We must constantly ask questions, even of our most sacred beliefs. Nothing should be too sacred to question. We should be wary of bias, or skewed statistics and quotes taken out of context. It is imperative that absorb as much information as possible. We must be like a sponge, maintaining a critical eye over all that we absorb. Instead of following the second aspect of Gorean epistemology, we must actively oppose it. We must follow an epistemology where critical thinking about the veracity of matters is essential. Mindless acceptance of traditional teachings and commonly accepted lore must be avoided.

    So let's apply this analysis to Gor and the Gorean philosophy. First, we will note there are some "noted experts" in this area, people thought to be extremely knowledgeable concerning Gor and its philosophy. In general, such experts do exist as some individuals have devoted much time to studying Gor. There are a few websites as well that are seen as authoritative on the subject, based upon significant research of the books. Based on these matters, there is a body of commonly accepted lore concerning Gor, information that is rarely questioned. Second, we note that there are a large number of less reliable websites and authorities, pushing their own version of the "truth". Many of these sites and authorities are less than accurate in describing elements of Gor. The devotion of these experts and websites can be found lacking. Third, we note the online "myths" of Gor that circulate among the various communities without anyone understanding the source. These myths, even though they are incorrect, are simply accepted often due to the fact they have a long online tradition.

    Someone who is new to Gor, and comes online seeking to learn, will confront all three of these aspects. Yet how do they know which to trust? How do they know who is speaking the truth? How do they determine who is actually authoritative concerning Gor? If they ask others online for their advice on this issue, they will hear a variety of opinions about who is reliable. And even the most reliable authorities will be denigrated by some individuals. The person seeking to learn is thus stuck within a quagmire of conflicting ideas. They will be unsure of whom to trust, what to believe. They know nothing about Gor so they have no basis to judge. So what can they do?

    This is when a person must apply a more critical eye to the truth. Any search for the truth should start as close to the original source as possible. In the case of Gor, it should start with the twenty-five books in the Gorean series. To understand the truths about Gor, one must read the books. There is no other way to guarantee that the information you acquire about Gor is accurate or valid. Even if you consult the most reliable authority concerning Gor, that person can still make mistakes. And the only way to know if mistakes have been made, is to know what the books actually say. The only guaranteed way to determine whether someone is knowledgeable about Gor or not is to know what the books say. Unless you rely on the books, you are only relying on hearsay, second hand knowledge. And you have no way to judge the veracity of that hearsay. If you are truly concerned about learning the truths about Gor, then your only option is to read the Gorean series. And reading the entire series is the most efficacious because each book adds something to the truths of Gor. But, is reading the books the end of your quest for the truth? Absolutely not.

    Knowing what the books say and fully understanding them is not the same. True comprehension requires even more critical thinking. This can be enhanced in various ways. One important method is through discussing the issues with other knowledgeable people. Such discussions can offer different points of view that you might not have considered. If someone states something different from your own belief, question them about it. Seek their source for their belief. Ask them how they derived their opinion. What you will finally end up with, is an understanding of what the Gor books say, of the messages within the series. You will have relied primarily upon your own critical analysis for your information, supported by your proactive discussions with others.

    Yet, this is only one form of the truth. It is the more factual type, a catalog of the ideas and concepts embodied within the Gor books. It may provide a guideline to the philosophy of Gor. But, there is a second level of truth that can also be considered. This involves the validity of the philosophy that was uncovered. Now that you understand what the philosophy says, after your reading and analysis of the books, is the philosophy true or not? This is another area where tradition has a strong grip over people. There is more often an acceptance of the validity of this philosophy without an actual analysis of that validity. Few people who claim to follow a Gorean philosophy question or provide proof of its validity. It is almost as if the philosophy is accepted on faith.

    So how does one go at verifying the truth of a philosophy? That can be considered a rather complex philosophical question, one that philosophers have struggled with for over two thousand years and still continue to battle. For our own sake, we can at least make some efforts in the direction to prove the validity of the Gorean philosophy. As the Gorean philosophy is considered to be based on some scientific and natural principles, we can at least look there for some support for the philosophy's validity. Thus, reading and studying works on history, philosophy, science, evolutionary psychology, sociology and more can be of great benefit. They may provide some of the supporting evidence for validity. It is not an easy task and it is unlikely that many people will actually go that far. Most people seem content with just reading the Gor books. They will settle for accepting the validity of the philosophy without extended proof. They believe they need nothing more than the Gor books.

    Yet, can one confine their reading to the books to prove its validity? Let's consider one example of some proof provided within the novels for a philosophical principle of Gor. One of the supporting facts for the principle of male dominance is that all other species of primates are male dominant. You will even hear people citing this proof when they discuss the issue of male dominance. Now, this "fact" could be accepted as the truth. Who wants to question the author of the books? Should he not be the ultimate authoritative source? Yet, this "fact" is actually incorrect. There are at least two species of primates that are female dominant. This simply shows that everyone makes mistakes and that a critical analysis of any and all purported facts may prove beneficial.

    Without outside support for the philosophy of Gor, then it truly devolves down to a matter of faith. It is simple acceptance of the validity of the philosophy without a requirement for supporting evidence. In some ways, that is similar to a religious belief. I do feel though that if the Gorean philosophy can be supported by additional evidence, then that evidence should be sought. Why rely solely on faith if stronger evidence can be discovered? And such additional evidence will also serve as support against critics of the Gorean philosophy who wish to rebut its validity. If there any reason not to strengthen ones defenses against such critics?

    In general, Gorean epistemology can be largely ignored without adversely affecting our acceptance of the Gorean philosophy. Gorean epistemology actually serves us better as a cautionary device to direct us to a more proper path to seeking the truth. We can easily understand why a more critical analysis of "truth" is warranted. Mistakes and deliberate deceptions can twist the actual truth. Only if we question these "truths" can we pierce the veil surrounding it. And the only way to pierce that veil is to critically examine what we see, read and hear. We must not be complacent in our belief systems. We must take a proactive stance, to forge our own trail to the truth.

    From the Gorean Voice, March 2002

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    Location : Mid Atlantic Ridge

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  4Rivers on Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:44 pm

    Alienne Laval wrote:
    Only first and second knowledge are stressed in the below contribution...
    I await the scroll of the third knowledge...

    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    the uttermost not-object

    Post  Alienne Laval on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:22 pm

    It is a truism that most people do not learn. They get taught and this means that they are programmed to accumulate. They accumulate objects and that what they call "information". But a key or code to scrutinize what they heap up is not delivered; and, btw.: it cannot.

    So their understanding remains limited and their conscious fields inflate until they reach a state that one can call raging standstill. Here the system-inherent inner monologue develops delusional characteristics.

    I just read the blog page of a teacher who got hospitalized and treated psychiatrically. Now, reflecting his treatment, he comes to the conclusion that psychiatry and psychology are no sciences because they lack consistent theories.

    With this conclusion he clearly shows that the therapy had no effects, since he did not grasp a methodology beyond the scope of the social sciences.

    This defect is not only inherent to the social sciences but to all scientific approaches where theories override experience. One coud call that a cognitive defect.

    I for long studied the origins and the propagation of this defect and came to the result that it is based in the subject-object-logic, mainly induced by false religious derivations, that, mostly unnoticed, diffused into sciences and elsewhere.

    An example of this logic: If I would be the object of your study, then you were the experimenter, this is the subject. You now want to find out whether I am a living being or not. A prerequisite would be the presumption that you are alive...

    You certainly will find some similarities between me and you, but in the long run the differences would increase. To keep your measurements valid you need a theory now to explain the to you unexplainable. This is, you start to treat me like an increasingly dead object, with the only function to inform you.

    Finally you reach a state of undecidability (this one - me - almost dead now), where paradox thoughts like Schroedinger*s famous cat appear. Is that thingy alive or not? Or both? Or none, hun?

    You cannot decide that, no subject can, because a living being as an object simply does not exist.

    Can alien beings, far developed, as many of you assume, be objects of your measurement? Can they really have equivalents to what you call civilization?

    How could a subject-free measurement function?

    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Tabula Rasa

    Post  Alienne Laval on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:49 pm

    "the psyche is not separable from the animal", Aristotle

    The motif of the "tabula rasa", the wiped blackboard, goes back to Plato, when he tried to explain the preconditions to establish his utopian republic, where an elite shall rule.

    This elite has to be just, according to his idea that the virtue of the soul is justice. Even more, members of the elite should be souls par excellence.

    Plato was very sure about the fact that those souls had no chance to develop within the systems he used to know - and most still live in today.

    He must have been conscious of the inherent danger of his teachings, of a state philosophy that later easily got abused by the Roman state and the following absolutist and (social) fascist developments and "revolutions".

    But, parallely to this poison he delivered the remedy in form of the stranger, the alien. He did not assume a being to come from outer space...


    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
    Join date : 2010-05-22
    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:09 pm

    If you need to whip me now...


    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Guest on Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:42 pm

    Alienne Laval wrote:
    "There is no dearth of true masters here," she said.
    I wondered in what sort of place I might be that there might here be no dearth of true masters. In all my life, hitherto, I did not think I had ever met a man, or knowingly met a man, who was a true master. The nearest I had come, I felt, were the men I had encountered before being brought to this place, those who had treated me as though I might be nothing, and had incarcerated me in the straps and iron box.

    What "constitutes" a true man or true master as the excerpt says...

    What are the "qualities" in your point of view?

    Mentioning of "treated as nothing", "incarceration", "iron box".....is this perhaps hinting at possession or the "misguided" dominance of the male?

    Your view on possession..to be "owned"...exclusively....

    Your view on conditions?

    Alienne Laval

    Posts : 156
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    Location : Geostationary Orbit

    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

    Post  Alienne Laval on Tue Feb 01, 2011 7:39 pm

    Hmm, I like both, Masters and Mistresses. Often one gets punished not for doing silly things, but for overstraining mental capacities. In fact the education drives you to a certain "perfection"; and then the day comes they cannot handle you anymore...

    Being Kajira is a way of being. You get that when you finally "opened". I often compared that to Yoga and Tantra.

    A true Master is a man who sees a good Kajira as a most precious and unique being.

    In your development as Kajira you reach this point of "nothingness", where your socialized ego vanishes. There are many different means to reach this point. Some girls are easy, others are difficult, many are no Kajirae at all.

    If these means like caging etc. become ends in themselves they surely demonstrate "misguided" dominance.

    One must not be owned by a person, one can be owned by a city etc. too

    Even if they treat me so bad right now, I see myself as city slave.

    Hmm, I like to be leashed in fact, like a pet... I tend to wander...


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    Join date : 2010-10-14
    Location : Mid Atlantic Ridge

    "From Malkuth to Kether"

    Post  4Rivers on Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:59 pm

    Bow down before the one you serve
    Your going to get what you deserve

    Your leash is ready, wondering one
    Prepare the temple for your master

    My name is Justice, and i am the Regent of Malkuth
    I bring you the key to unlock the chains that bind you

    A key to unlock the Double Knowledge
    It appears in the Third Knowledge


    What you own is your own kingdom
    What you do is your own glory
    What you love is your own power
    What you live is your own story
    In your head is the answer
    Let it guide you along
    Let your heart be the anchor
    And the beat of your own song


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    Re: Welcome to the Counter-Earth

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